Perfect Alignment

[NAATV]

This is how i make sure my alignment is perfect! 4 wheel Computurized alignment system lets me adjust Caster, Camber, and Toe (where applicable)


http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn316/naatv/2012-02-05_13-19-05_550.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn316/naatv/2012-02-05_14-17-56_948-1.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn316/naatv/2012-02-05_14-18-05_429-1.jpg

[AZCourt]

Hmmm. Can we put our trophy kart up there or would it be too narrow?

[tatum]

Is your suspension caster and camber adjustable?

[AZCourt]

I don't know if Brandon's is but the trophy kart is.

[onebuilder]

Branden are you adding weight to the car before aligning to simulate gear, riders?

[SGM4Life]

Alignment don't matter that much in dirt.

[tatum]

Alignment don't matter that much in dirt.

Respectfully disagree.

[Hounslow]

Alignment don't matter that much in dirt.
So I guess steering doesn't matter that much in the dirt.

[FABWERX1]

So going down the freeway @ 80 is the same as 60 in the dirt?
I beg to differ.
Alignment is important depending on track conditions.
But, if you got it, might as well use it.

[rappy60guy]

So going down the freeway @ 80 is the same as 60 in the dirt?
I beg to differ.
Alignment is important depending on track conditions.
But, if you got it, might as well use it.


I agree, i had my toe out about 3/8 of an inch and it was all over the place. Took it to an alignment shop and we did the same thing and its WAY better now

[Brian B]

Caster is adjustable by using under/over sized delrin bushings at the arm pivots.

And alignment is everything in the dirt. :rolleyes:

[NAATV]

Hmmm. Can we put our trophy kart up there or would it be too narrow?

Let me know the track width and i will measure it tomorrow

[NAATV]

Is your suspension caster and camber adjustable?

Caster is adjustable by adding a spacer in the front of the a arm pivots for positive caster or behind the pivot to lower caster. And luckily Lonestar's jig must be set up pretty good, because i have right at -.3 degree of camber which works great!

[NAATV]

Branden are you adding weight to the car before aligning to simulate gear, riders?

I left it on the rack and climbed in it with me and one other passenger and the numbers didnt change much, which is great. Bump steer is near to nothing and the camber change was within a tenth of a degree. I dont run much more weight than that so i didnt add anymore weight.

[NAATV]

Respectfully disagree.

I agree i think alignment matters in any drivng dicipline, and i love to have my steering wheel exactly straight haha. I deff notice the bigest diffence with the perfect caster, camber, and toe adjustments

[NAATV]

I agree, i had my toe out about 3/8 of an inch and it was all over the place. Took it to an alignment shop and we did the same thing and its WAY better now

Anytime you can eliminate scrub, and get more tire in contact with the ground you are going to notice a difference. We do alignments on cars that run 1/4 miles, and after the alignment they do show faster times.

[NAATV]

Caster is adjustable by using under/over sized delrin bushings at the arm pivots.

And alignment is everything in the dirt. :rolleyes:

YES! And alignment is everything EVERYWHERE!!!! ;)

[FABWERX1]

Anytime you can eliminate scrub, and get more tire in contact with the ground you are going to notice a difference. We do alignments on cars that run 1/4 miles, and after the alignment they do show faster times.

So what do you set the rear toe at?
That will effect the handling big time.

[rappy60guy]

come on Thad dont test us lol how the f can i change toe in the rear ?i guess rear radius rods but that would change axle length lol and width. Got me some nerf bars yet ?

[NAATV]

So what do you set the rear toe at?
That will effect the handling big time.

I am toed in .5 degrees and cambered in .7 degrees on both left and right in the rear per my adjustments.....

[NAATV]

And obviously the only way to adjust camber/toe in the rear is with adjustable radius rods.

Branden

[FABWERX1]

And obviously the only way to adjust camber/toe in the rear is with adjustable radius rods.

Branden

Correct.

We use to run up to a 1/2" toe out (on a rhino) on short course tracks.
It would pivot on the inner front tire cornering like it had turning brakes.

[Brian B]

Correct.

We use to run up to a 1/2" toe out (on a rhino) on short course tracks.
It would pivot on the inner front tire cornering like it had turning brakes.

Is this SCF Thad?

[Brian B]

And obviously the only way to adjust camber/toe in the rear is with adjustable radius rods.

Branden

When you get your car back on there, do us all a favor and determine how much toe change there is throughout the rear suspension travel. I'm told there is a lot!

[TNT]

Does that computer pick up on the car or steering box center line as a ref axis? What about bump or roll steer?

[SGM4Life]

Its funny how you guys misinterpret my statement. The slight adjusting is not gonna make much of a difference in the dirt like the pavement is what I mean. So you know robby gordon's tt and dakar programs were aligned with tape measures at the shop or desert. Also none of the UTV's have great suspension characteristics either. They all have large amounts of tire scrub which will make the car handle like crap thru rough terrian anyways.

[TNT]

Its funny how you guys misinterpret my statement. The slight adjusting is not gonna make much of a difference in the dirt like the pavement is what I mean. So you know robby gordon's tt and dakar programs were aligned with tape measures at the shop or desert. Also none of the UTV's have great suspension characteristics either. They all have large amounts of tire scrub which will make the car handle like crap thru rough terrian anyways.

Last weekend I made a fool of a manager in front of many customers in Sears lobby that sold my lady friend an alignment for a shimmy in the wheel. He insisted he was correct even though after we got the CV/axles replaced that corrected the shimmy, the alignment was out after we fixed the axles and she was back with me ready to fight for a refund. Then the kid there tried to tell us that worn cv’s/axles won’t cause a shimmy when in fact it fixed the prob. Manager insisted he had 30 yrs experience and knew his stuff, all I could say is you still don’t know what the hell your doing this is high school stuff and no where on your own charts is alignment noted to cause a shimmy, and rip people that know no better off. Suspension has to be tight before an alignment he disagreed. They redid the alignment for free, just goes to show how misunderstood it is and people will argue with logic and fact to boost their ego’s and sales.

Not saying your one of them, but you should write SAE a letter and tell them what a waste of time shop manual procedures are obtaining 1/16-3/16 toe like on the 900XP, and the many, many, off road racing companies publications and procedures across the globe that spends lots of hours obtaining it by primitive tooling and tape measures. First off, the procedure in the manual does not lend itself to it starting with eye balling a straight steering wheel to no reference. Greg @ LSR has the right idea using the rack and frame…..

The way i get the front end set up on a utv, is to center the steering wheel (make sure steering rack is in center as well) then take a measurement from the center of the tie rod bolt to a spot on the frame, and do the same on the other side (using same spots to measure). Adjust tie rods, so that each side is exactly the same. This will center the tires to the centerline of the chassis. As long as your measuring from something that is symmetrical on both sides of the car.

Then, i measure the toe using the inside edge of the wheel. How ever much its off, i will adjust each tie rod the same amount, and measure again, until i get it where i want. Then just to double check, i measure from the tie rod end to the chassis on both sides, and make sure that is still the same. Once that is done, the car should go straight, assuming the other alignment angles, tire pressures, a-arms, chassis etc are good. Plus your steering wheel should be level when driving straight as well. Means mounds to a racer.

G-


Only thing he does not capture is tracking to the rear tires which you need a floor jig (FAJ) for. I too have done this for years, MX, TT, XC set ups at the semi national pro level and they are all completely different from one another, as are the tracks most do not understand. I don’t think it was for years of doing it in the back of our race rig and experiencing the difference on different tracks we understood. I generated a computer log, including the effects on shock setting’s, that’s how we risen to the top so fast.

I recently aligned my 900 XP toe with tape and 2x6x8’s using tires since mine had one wheel out ¼, other in ½ after 30 hrs and found my frame is twisted. It was pulling and I corrected it through toe. I’m sure I am still inaccurate off by more than 3/8 after spending 3-4 hours. I also don’t believe these control arm points are manufactured to 1/16-3/16 but I’m baseing that on just my 900XP. Any time the tire patch is not flat and normal to the ground and wheels aligned/tracking to one another, and symmetry, it will have a large impact of the forces felt on the steering wheel that’s just logic that can not be disputed.

I would not call this OP computer alignment “perfect” unless it indexes off the steering box and OEM tooling pins or “actual” chassis cl, checks bump and roll steer which has a large impact in off road handling. Looks like it reads the rear wheels good, which is probably what the factory has, laser tracking qualified to their 3d datasets. Sure does beat the procedures most owners and dealers use tho just won’t fit into the racers tool box be nice if someone develop that. :D