Baja 500 VW Nerf.....Your thoughts?

george.felix

George
Jan 11, 2015
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In your defense I never heard of this unwritten rule either George. UTVs started behind these guys for a long time in Baja and I never nerfed one but came close. Many of them were bad about jack rabbiting and if you are going to intentionally block I really dont car if I hurt your car.
I knew I wasn't the only one who never heard of it. I don't understand the aversion to written rules. If it's important put it in the rule book. He wasn't faster and got ahead of me because we were down 40 min at RM 3. Yes the lanes were there at the point of impact but I was already focused on his bumper trying not to hit him hard so at that time wasn't looking. Just before that he cut me off in a wide corner wasn't going to let me by. I admitted I shouldn't have hit him but these sheep in the "cool guy" club just wanna back slap each other while they hang off each other's balls like a daisy chain. Just read the posts guys who don't even race. I'm one of the few honest people on this forum whether you like it or not. The guy had no video or photos so it's like it never happened. I stepped up and put it out there with my own incriminating (as some dick wads pointed out) photos. Some of you guys have no class whatsoever. What's really pathetic is you don't have a mind of your own and are a bunch of sheep masquerading as grown men. I offered to help the guy fix his shit which is a lot more than some would do.
 
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george.felix

George
Jan 11, 2015
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I hope this my final comment....for every person that posts here there are 1000 that only read and no wonder given the way the same group every time gangs up on others. 99% of them just read and are intimidated to post anything that's not in agreement with the bully squad. If I had a nickle for each strangers thats walked up to me and said I like what you say but I don't always agree I could build a new car. Case in point I nerfed this class 11 guy....I admitted the mistake....I offered to help pay.....I provided all the incriminating evidence.....I think that's honorable. Now you toads who feel like still jumping on the derogatory bandwagon show no class imo. Does it bother me? HELL NO! I may not be the most accomplished desert racer but at my age I've accomplished more than enough to have a ballsack full of confidence and pride. I've designed and engineered my own product that's changed an industry. I've raised two college kids. I've employeed over 50 people that over half most have been with me over 10 years. At least 5-6 ex employees stay in touch on a regular basis. Think about that one for a min....how many of u are friends w your ex boss. So have your fun pick at me instead of someone else I can take it. When I start winning races I'm going to rub it in your noses for all it's worth!!! Haha! Won't be long......

Now back to the topic....lol Eric the class 11 guy said he has a $9,000 motor so for all you Class 11 low budget and limited resource advocates that sounds like a shitload of cash for a VW motor and hardly low budget. He said the car was fast and I assume didn't spend $9k on a motor to be pulling over for a UTV. How many knew that? Anyway, I had no co driver so I was on my own it's not easy. After the bottleneck I let 4-5 UTV go by without incident. If I didn't let someone by right away it was because without a co driver I didn't see you till you were on my bumper. If I speeded up it was to find a place to pull over quicker for your benefit. If you wanna interpret that as rabbitting that's up to you. I was way behind trying to catch up from RM 3 with a co driver that spoke zero English and did not know a GPS from a fish finder. I had shitty brakes from the damage and to top it off my co driver talked the entire time like he was delivering the state of the union address in Spanish of which I understood via the intercom absolutely nothing. No it was not my best day and doing the race under the circumstances was a terrible idea in hindsight. Topped off by nerfing a class 11 car! This shit will be funny some day just not today! Lol
 

dezertracer

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May 22, 2016
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I personally love reading this stuff. I have spent most of my years racing bikes so I have a lot to learn about this 4 wheel stuff. National hare & hound races you deal with the same kind of issues but when you get to a bottle neck its a free for all. As for passing its the same thing if I catch someone in a canyon they should pull up to the side to get out of the way. This is my first year racing a UTV and I've learned that most will get out of the way but a few just refuse.
Felix I think its says a lot of your character for you to post your mistakes on a public forum for all to comment on. I have learned a lot from threads like this and unfortunately its usually at someones misfortune. Hopefully others will be able to learn from your mistakes and now a new thread has been created because of this one that talks about the unwritten rules.
 
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george.felix

George
Jan 11, 2015
818
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Houston, Texas
Yeah I also raced X Country for years and same thing if someone was stuck it was a free for all. Bikes would run over you or around you or find an alternate way. What you can be sure of is nobody waited in line....that actually makes me lol to think about.
 

Rynomx785

Active Member
Jun 21, 2015
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If you catch any slower car with at least 1 really wide lane (very clearly available on the incriminating video) on either side of them, why not go around? He's not really in the way in the 3 other lanes available.
George could have sat back and found a way around instead of bumping him sure. It is very easy to sit here and say you would have done differently but you wouldn't know that for sure without putting yourself in the situation.

The way I have always understood it, it is the slower cars responsibility to move out of the way of faster cars. The 11 car saw George and chose to maintain the race line. He could have moved sooner but he chose not to. His decision cost him the race and a lot of money from the sounds of things.

I really hope he doesn't have $9k in a VW motor though. lol
 
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ironworks

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Jan 18, 2010
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George could have sat back and found a way around instead of bumping him sure. It is very easy to sit here and say you would have done differently but you wouldn't know that for sure without putting yourself in the situation.

The way I have always understood it, it is the slower cars responsibility to move out of the way of faster cars. The 11 car saw George and chose to maintain the race line. He could have moved sooner but he chose not to. His decision cost him the race and a lot of money from the sounds of things.

I really hope he doesn't have $9k in a VW motor though. lol

Its wide open. No excuse. Takes longer to nerf then just go around. Check out the video pics.

Baja 500 UTV nerfs VW......
 

acme

Active Member
Jul 21, 2015
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The way I have always understood it, it is the slower cars responsibility to move out of the way of faster cars. The 11 car saw George and chose to maintain the race line. He could have moved sooner but he chose not to. His decision cost him the race and a lot of money from the sounds of things.

I really hope he doesn't have $9k in a VW motor though. lol
1) The car you catch needs to be aware that you are there which is a catch 22 as you never nudge an 11 car: PERIOD! PS until you've walked in their shoes do not judge them: My wife and a number of friends raced/race very successfully in Class 11 and I was her co-driver; they are hard to see behind! PS I thought that's what stella was for?

2) The car that is caught should move once they see you AT THE EARLIEST POSSIBLE SAFE TIME! However, you should not expect them to wreck themselves or get stuck moving out of the way for you...

3) IT IS THE PASSING CARS RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE A CLEAN PASS.

4) Don't expect them to get 100% off the course and park and give you 100% of the line (which some ballers expect). You need to look for lines or bushwhack...

5) One habitual problem is a lot of blue lighters believe they are special and hands off including Jeepspuds and Golfcarts and they don't yield or move. Not judging this case but giving you info and facts... Hopefully you have all learned that Class 11's actually are special and really are hands off.

6) FYI A good "fuel" VW 1600 motor from a top builder is expensive and $9k for a complete motor with accys is not unheard of.

PS a race gas 1600 is good for about 75-80ish HP, a solid class 9 low comp motor is about 65-70HP. A class 11 has about 6&8" of travel on 28-30's max with no PS and a 9 car slightly more travel and a larger tire but with 1968 swing axle/VW ball joint suspension and no PS or bypasses with 1/2 1600's coming in about 10 & 14" of travel but stock VW width and PS plus magical bypasses: All 3 use VW torsion type suspension. Cost of these classes is significantly less than a $50-100K UTV with a 160HP turbo with 18" of independent wheel travel.
 

BiggJim

I Hate Rules - UTVUnderground Approved
Jan 15, 2009
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4) Don't expect them to get 100% off the course and park and give you 100% of the line (which some ballers expect). You need to look for lines or bushwhack...

I dont completely agree with this one for any class. The Passee has clean air and can see alot better that the Passer...the passee has been caught which means he is the slower car. The passe should make more effort to get out of the way as they can clearly see whats in front of them, if the passer has to bushwack and pass in dust he is alot more at risk that the slower car in front of him. I'm not saying pull over and stop...just make an effort to let the faster guy around.
 
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acme

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Jul 21, 2015
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In EVERY other form of motorsports you are taught to hold your line and let the fast guy pass you and its his job to make a safe pass. NASCAR to sprint cars, road race to oval.

Yes, Desert Racing is a little different but the same concept applies. As a driver you accept the risk of racing and in 25+ yrs I have never expected a guy to wreck his car or race moving out of the way. He should yeild as much as safely possible.

The mentality of GTF outta my way or Ill move you is pretty stupid imho. Having been both the punter and puntee in limited to unlimited cars over the yrs, I guess I see things differently...

My buddy is a gun for hire and drives for a lot of teams including Cops in longer races He is a solid wheelman that has more wins than anyone in this convo, period. I co drove a C1 with him and we were running for the overall in a MORE night race with 18 cars and TTs and some very notable teams. We went bushwhacking up to 107mph per the gps to make passes numerous times, in the dust, as he didn't want to slow and wait for the slower lapped cars to move. It was interesting as we both loudly exhaled when we jumped back into the race line but we accepted the choice... Lost a hub bearing ending our night lol
 
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Glamisfan

Active Member
Oct 26, 2009
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Alright, after reading that entire thread, I no longer like George. Get out of utv’s and Baja. You don’t belong in this community. I mean your post calling people stupid.........look in the mirror! And talking about how nerfing is wrong and bad and blah blah blah.......look in the mirror! You’re a douche!
 

BiggJim

I Hate Rules - UTVUnderground Approved
Jan 15, 2009
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In EVERY other form of motorsports you are taught to hold your line and let the fast guy pass you and its his job to make a safe pass. NASCAR to sprint cars, road race to oval.

Yes, Desert Racing is a little different but the same concept applies. As a driver you accept the risk of racing and in 25+ yrs I have never expected a guy to wreck his car or race moving out of the way. He should yeild as much as safely possible.

The mentality of GTF outta my way or Ill move you is pretty stupid imho. Having been both the punter and puntee in limited to unlimited cars over the yrs, I guess I see things differently...

My buddy is a gun for hire and drives for a lot of teams including Cops in longer races He is a solid wheelman that has more wins than anyone in this convo, period. I co drove a C1 with him and we were running for the overall in a MORE night race with 18 cars and TTs and some very notable teams. We went bushwhacking up to 107mph per the gps to make passes numerous times, in the dust, as he didn't want to slow and wait for the slower lapped cars to move. It was interesting as we both loudly exhaled when we jumped back into the race line but we accepted the choice... Lost a hub bearing ending our night lol
all those other sports have 1 thing in common that desert racing dont...all those sports start at the drop of the flag....not in a timed line, all of those sports dont charge thru dust. Im not for crashing a guy out, Im not saying crash yourself out....I'm saying you are already beat...move aside and let the fast guy thru. Maybe its all the driver meeting I sat thru listen to Casey Folks tell people to get out of the way, to watch your mirrors, you have been beat. IDK...but what I do know is when teams dont do any of those 3 things they tend to get a bump. Usually a bump is all it takes.
 
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acme

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Jul 21, 2015
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Jim: Totally agree that desert racing is different animal to an extent, but passing is passing and take sports car racing where multiple classes are on the course at the same time: Your always catch slower cars and have to deal with traffic. And if it's not a lap race and you are catching them; it is because you are down but regardless as pro drivers they always tell you to hold your line or in the desert move over if/when possible and the passer is responsible for a clean pass. Maybe racers watch much Days of Thunder too many times...

In the dez: Yes, they should yield if/when possible and a bump in a reasonable manner in a place to let them know is correct SOP! But they shouldn't be expected smash themselves off course to avoid the conflict nail driver... With the logic of they need to move now: What happens on a tree lined single line ridge? Uraphan, Goat Trail, Summit, Primm downhill whoops with the bollards, La Rumorosa, single line trench-wash after aquaduct in Parker (425), Mikes road, Beer Bottle Pass, Mikes to Melling trail? Go over the edge or into the rocks? Hold your line? Duck in where possible and if it's not enough, do you push them off so you can advance??? Dust is an age old issue in the sport and if people can't deal with it, maybe tarmac racing is a better option.

I know most on here don't know long time desert race legends like: Roeseler, McChaceran, Le Duc, Mark McMillin, Ashley etc... but it's funny, as you never hear those name affiliated with any big nerf incidents, yet those guys have more wins and overalls: Not only class wins but BAJA & lap race OVERALLS than any of us can even conceive or have or will race. How'd they do it without smashing their way around?

Sidebar Jim: I agree with your and Casey's (RIP) comments! In fact in our little TSCO deal: My wife who was leading and not blocking as he was down and never gave her a chance to block if she wanted to; the co-dog saw them way back and a hand went up and stayed up waiving. They never slowed but she moved right looking for a hole and there was a line to the left and the DICKHEAD plowed them out of frustration. I went after Casey at the finish and he came back at me, then on the podium I commented on the incident and asked the responsible party to let me know what happened and if it was legit, I owe them a beer. Ironically the whole team was parked 50' away and heard me, but we didn't know it was them until a few weeks later. I sent Casey an email Tuesday after the race and he said racing incident as there was no proof and we didn't know the car etc... When Casey became aware of it via another email after we saw the video and I reached out the them off the airways to find out WTF they were thinking, and they lied and played the we are rich TT dickweeds etc,: When Casey saw the incar they posted and the comment which went something like: "We were trying to make up time and had to do what we had to do". CASEY called the boys and tore them a new one and then he called me and apologized for telling me it was probably a racing incident. When he found out the rest of the story from the PM I hadn't told him in my email, where they lied to me and him he went off at them again, very hard. The next week I got 3 calls from Casey as he read the thread on RDC on bad nerfs and saw their comments, we talked a lot about stupide nerfs, entitlements and clueless racers.

Moral of the story: There is a right way and wrong way and we all have a choice to be part of the problem or part of the solution. Most will not say a thing or follow the cool kids as they are lemmings, but some of us will and karma is a bitch...
 
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tatum

Hans Solo - 2009 UTV Baja 500 & 1000 Winner - UTVU
Feb 10, 2009
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Alright, after reading that entire thread, I no longer like George. Get out of utv’s and Baja. You don’t belong in this community. I mean your post calling people stupid.........look in the mirror! And talking about how nerfing is wrong and bad and blah blah blah.......look in the mirror! You’re a douche!
Do you race Baja? George got beat up because he didn't like nerfing and was told by everyone it's part of the game. Now he's getting beat up for an Unwritten rule even though he took responsibility for something that I don't know he's really responsible for. Yes he gets a little emotional but at the end of the day he's already given back to the sport more than most.
 

facteryfmf

Looking For a Few Good Men - UTVUnderground Approv
Feb 8, 2009
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Do you race Baja? George got beat up because he didn't like nerfing and was told by everyone it's part of the game. Now he's getting beat up for an Unwritten rule even though he took responsibility for something that I don't know he's really responsible for. Yes he gets a little emotional but at the end of the day he's already given back to the sport more than most.
Amen. x2.
 
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jaggedx

Jagged X - Official UTVUnderground Sponsor
Jan 14, 2010
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GE 6 Deliberate, abusive nerfing, or bumping shall be reason for reprimand, penalty, disqualification and/or suspension at the discretion of the Race Director. Nerfing any vehicle displaying a rear facing blue light is not permitted at any time. Reported violations will be penalized by SCORE Race Director

Not really unwritten! This is directly from the SCORE rulebook posted on the SCORE website.

Just sayin'
 
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Doug8765

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Oct 24, 2014
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Nobody follows it or do they penalize anyone!!! It happens all the fiffin time man ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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george.felix

George
Jan 11, 2015
818
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Houston, Texas
Had no idea this was still going but for the record I still think nerfing should be treated w restraint. I've done it I don't like to do it. This last race at Silverstate I don't think was very much nerfing so I think the mentality is changing.
 

BiggJim

I Hate Rules - UTVUnderground Approved
Jan 15, 2009
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Had no idea this was still going but for the record I still think nerfing should be treated w restraint. I've done it I don't like to do it. This last race at Silverstate I don't think was very much nerfing so I think the mentality is changing.
Or maybe people are watching their mirrors and moving over?
 

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