How will the Turbo Maverick affect UTV racing?

[JoeyD23]

So the BITD rules thread got me thinking. How will this new Turbo Maverick R DS affect UTV racing??

Maybe it won't but something tells me that because we as a sport are always striving to have the latest and greatest, and of course fastest, that guys are going to want to buy and race the new Maverick Turbo. I don't blame them, but what can of worms can this potentially open if orgs allow them to compete amongst other naturally aspirated machines? Will it open it up for guys with RZRs to then go out and put aftermarket turbos on their machines?

My experience with aftermarket turbos leave me to believe that they are not the most reliable machines in the play realm let alone taking them out to race them. I can remember a RZR 900 Turbo racing at WORCS last season and he was never a factor in terms of competing for a lead, that I can remember anyway? Majority of the guys I see with turbos in the desert are either broken or on the verge of breaking. Even those who build the turbo engines seem to have problems. Of course, there are many who have had great success with them but I think they are for sure the minority.

BUT thats what makes this factory turbo from Can-Am so interesting. I think the reliability will be pretty good, no way Can-Am didn't do their homework and test them. No OEM I believe puts out a machine that they foresee to be a dealer / warranty nightmare. So can this new Maverick Turbo be a game changer for UTV racing? It sure looks like it could be, but then again, is it fair to allow them to compete in a Pro Class at WORCS or BITD? I mean, it is factory, anyone can buy one right?

Despite it being factory, I think I still lean towards a turbo or super charged UTV not being allowed to compete in any class designed around naturally aspirated engines. Logic tells me that Polaris, Arctic Cat and maybe a few others are not far behind with their own Turbo models but even then, what happens with all the other non turbo machines who are competing?

Logic tells me it will need to be one more new class developed and I hate to think of that happening for one major reason in that it further dilutes the pro classes of UTV racing. The last thing we really need is another class at BITD or at WORCS. The 850 class at BITD was a perfect example of diluting the pro class for the sake of crowning another winner out of no more than 4-5 cars in the class (if that).

As you can see, I am conflicted. I am excited, big time, but certainly conflicted.

What are your thoughts??

 

[c.moore]

I say let the turbos run .. It's innovation and the next step in our industry .. I don't know bitd rules but if there's a cc limit then no doubt turbos should be allowed .. The next step will be the cvt going by the wayside

 

[Ali Baba]

It will be interesting to see how they run. A new class is inevitable.

 

[motive]

I talked about it in another thread already but the short of it is that I talked to Casey at V2R and he was already planning to make some class changes. Basically turning SR1 class into an unlimited class.

We ran a couple of the BOR desert races with a turbo'd wildcat. It was a detriment to overall speed. With the added turbo lag it was harder to manage at the limits and belt life sucked. not to mention pitting a lap early to fuel up. A factory turbo might be OK but I have never seen an aftermarket one I would trust for 250+ miles

 

[NIKAL]

Without doing any research I feel the Maverick Turbo should be legal in the BITD Pro Class. The current rules clearly state you must run a stock engine case, head and not be over 1000cc's. Plus you must use the stock production fuel delivery system. Electric fuel pumps & location are legal. The Factory Production Turbo is part of that models Fuel Delivery System as far as I'm concerned, thus should be legal.

At no time should any aftermarket turbo or turbo components be legal to race on any model car in any of the UTV classes. If you did allow this you would be opening Pandora's box, and once again that would kill the production engine concept of the class.

Each brand & model has its advantages. This might be the place where Can Am has its advantage. No one cried when Polaris released a 1000cc machine with 18 inches of factory wheel travel, which is currently dominating & is 3/4 of the entries in BITD.

What if Polaris released a 3 speed shift on the fly transmission? Would & should that been ban, because the CVT has been the heart of the UTV platform and none of the other brands would offer it at that time?

If you start separating the classes because one manufacture has or offers something the others don't, you will kill this class of vehicle. Part of what makes the UTV class impressive and hold weight is the fact they bring large entry numbers every race. Look back and search, I was very much against making a 850cc and under class. IMO the only reason that class was made was John Deere who is a BITD sponsor wanted a chance to win, and the only way "Farm Implement" is going to win a race is to build a class for them. The supporters of this new 850 class sold the idea that older UTV's would have a place to race and would not be sent out to pasture to collect dust. So how many are racing that class? Does anyone even look at that class?

If the factory's build and offer something in their production line up that anyone can buy, and it still meets the requirements of the current rulebook then it should be legal.

 

[Kalop]

I say LET "EM RUN. Its stock, if no other manufacturer can step up or match the HP, then CanAm will just dominate until the others do step up. (*Of course that assumes a lot for new untested unit, but you get the point.)

 

[JoeyD23]

Without doing any research I feel the Maverick Turbo should be legal in the BITD Pro Class. The current rules clearly state you must run a stock engine case, head and not be over 1000cc's. Plus you must use the stock production fuel delivery system. Electric fuel pumps & location are legal. The Factory Production Turbo is part of that models Fuel Delivery System as far as I'm concerned, thus should be legal.

At no time should any aftermarket turbo or turbo components be legal to race on any model car in any of the UTV classes. If you did allow this you would be opening Pandora's box, and once again that would kill the production engine concept of the class.

Each brand & model has its advantages. This might be the place where Can Am has its advantage. No one cried when Polaris released a 1000cc machine with 18 inches of factory wheel travel, which is currently dominating & is 3/4 of the entries in BITD.

What if Polaris released a 3 speed shift on the fly transmission? Would & should that been ban, because the CVT has been the heart of the UTV platform and none of the other brands would offer it at that time?

If you start separating the classes because one manufacture has or offers something the others don't, you will kill this class of vehicle. Part of what makes the UTV class impressive and hold weight is the fact they bring large entry numbers every race. Look back and search, I was very much against making a 850cc and under class. IMO the only reason that class was made was John Deere who is a BITD sponsor wanted a chance to win, and the only way "Farm Implement" is going to win a race is to build a class for them. The supporters of this new 850 class sold the idea that older UTV's would have a place to race and would not be sent out to pasture to collect dust. So how many are racing that class? Does anyone even look at that class?

If the factory's build and offer something in their production line up that anyone can buy, and it still meets the requirements of the current rulebook then it should be legal.

Pretty sure you meant to say no one complained when Arctic Cat released a 1000cc machine with 17 +/- inches of travel? I think people forget that Arctic Cat and Can-Am had the first 1000s. And no, no one complained because there was nothing to complain about. That was a standard level of progression. I don't see an increase in wheel travel and CC (within 1000) being anywhere remotely the same as adding a turbo. It no longer is and can be considered naturally aspirated. Forced induction is a big deal.

With that said I get your point on all sides and it's a good point. But let's just say Polaris had the only 1000cc engine. Everyone else had 700cc. Would you say it was fair to put Polaris in the 700 class? Or would you say create their own 1000cc class? We have been down this road before already in UTV, almost every year, and the new class was always created. I think I foresee a new class. Casey has eluded to me that next year will have an unlimited class to replace DSR1, when we had this discussion the turbo was not released. But what do WORCS and LOORRS do about this?

I think some could make an argument that it only has a few more HP then the Rzr 1000. HP that is easily already compensated for in many of the built Rzr 1000 engines. But we also know that turbo can am is wayyy de tuned. I wonder how much more someone can actually get out of it with some minor tinkering???

Nevertheless, this is really exciting discussion for us to be having. UTVs continue to progress! Kudos to Can-Am for going for it!

 

[JoeyD23]

My vote for now is to have them run in an Unlimited class. I think once there is a couple more factory turbos then you can make a more legit argument that TURBO CHARGED UTVs can then compete against naturally aspirated race UTVs.

To me that seems the fairest way to do it?

Its tough.. I can still argue the other side lol

 

[JoeyD23]

I say LET "EM RUN. Its stock, if no other manufacturer can step up or match the HP, then CanAm will just dominate until the others do step up. (*Of course that assumes a lot for new untested unit, but you get the point.)

So if a OEM comes out with a UTV that has a V8 would you still feel the same way since its "stock"? lol

 

[crazywatson]

But what about the stock class there trying to promote. A guy will will come out with his stock Can Am with only the safety gear installed and have to run against full on unlimited race cars. That's not fair either.

 

[JoeyD23]

But what about the stock class there trying to promote. A guy will will come out with his stock Can Am with only the safety gear installed and have to run against full on unlimited race cars. That's not fair either.

There is no stock class at WORCS, BITD and Lucas Oil.

Its on the consumer to do a little research before he makes a purchase would be my argument anyway.

 

[badassmav]

We have not yet made a commitment for next year, but it's my guess that if BITD has an unlimited class next year that would allow for turbocharged engines, then Can-am would want us to race the new turbo car in said class. Assuming the other mfgs. follow the "turbo" suit, I guess it would be alright. It sure would be a bummer if we couldn't race against the top pro sportsman teams where rivalries and chivalry exists.

 

[JoeyD23]

We have not yet made a commitment for next year, but it's my guess that if BITD has an unlimited class next year that would allow for turbocharged engines, then Can-am would want us to race the new turbo car in said class. Assuming the other mfgs. follow the "turbo" suit, I guess it would be alright. It sure would be a bummer if we couldn't race against the top pro sportsman teams where rivalries and chivalry exists.

I would make a bet that the Unlimited class would allow for this new machine. I don't think any Org would fight that since its factory. I will say, it does suck if what you describe would be the case. I don't think it helps prove Can-Am if they are not competing against the best of the best.

What if Polaris or any other OEM doesn't release a turbo next year too? then what?

Sheesh, this is like a worm hole discussing this.. hahahaha

 

[badassmav]

Picture this scenario:
All the top Can-am teams race in the unlimited class with a few of the unlimited UTE's included, whilst Polaris has the class to themselves in Pro sportsman 1900. Both Mfg's. win their respective points titles while racing against their own brand.
How lack-luster does that sound?

 

[Bajaxp]

There are already too many classes. We should keep it simple like Supercross; two classes Pro UTV and Sportsman. The only caveat to this would be, unless a group can come up with at least 10 entries on a consistent basis. This would apply turbos, 850's, DRS1's, etc. A class with only two or three entries does not constitute a 'race,' IMO. My 2 pesos.

 

[Kalop]

I tend agree with too many classes being a problem.

Interesting issue / debate. Way to go CanAm WTF ?? lol

O H YEA .. Where do I get my v8 UTV ???? I'm readyy!!

 

[Rusty5150]

Let them race. It's a factory built machine. The rules say factory built 1000cc Max. It's within those rules. Advantage Can-Am for the time being. The other manufactures will have to step up soon.


GOLF CART DORK.

 

[facteryfmf]

Rules say naturally aspirated only though

 

[crazywatson]

Those naturally aspirated built engine Mark Queen has in allot of cars out there are making e hell of allot more hp then the new can am. Polaris guys are just shivering in there boots that they might get beat. Lol

 

[Bajaxp]

We had significantly more horsepower with our normally aspirated Kroyer RZR motor than the Mav has with a turbo. We went away from the hot rod engine and back to a stock H.O. to help drivetrain and belt reliability.

I have said it a million times, desert racing isn't about horsepower or top speed. It is about acceleration, drivability, speed in the rough, reliability, etc.

It is not that any team is 'scared' of the Can Am turbo, it is just the president that it sets. Eg...is Can Am writing the rules for desert racing just because they came out with a turbo? I am pretty certain that they will still be offering the non-turbo Mav and that is what ALL of the current Can Am teams are running this set up.

My 2 pesos would be to stick with the 1000cc normally aspirated requirement until there are enough turbos (Can Am or other mfgr) to justify modifying the current rules. We have a very good thing going with Pro UTV desert racing and creating too many classes or allowing one manufacturer to run an engine that is outside the rules might jeopardize what has been created.