Huge RZR XP jump vid in Glamis
- Thread starter mosslager
- Start date
The guy that owns this car runs in our UTV Rally Raid series. It has been completely rebuilt and is working well now, but no longer has the stock cage.Nothing a little duct tape cant fix
-b
Exactly looks to me the tie rods snapped at a minimum. Both tires instantly split away from eachother as it touches the ground.
I would venture to say the a-arm mounting points are bent as well.
I'm with Tatum...How is this video any proof that the XP didn't break? That the machine is tough? Before you can see the outcome the video ends. I would be very impressed with any car not breaking after a hit like that.
Well said. Hard to think that even a fully built race car could suffer a hit like that and not bend/break something.
These things will never jump far and high as long as that much mass is to the rear. Once momentum sets in theres no turning back, it only gets worse fast! 2-3 more feet it flip fwd, lucky!
One day as I said in other post the chassis needs to lighten up, motor bulk of the weight move fwd w/more TQ, until then use your brakes in the air stop the fwd torque.
One day as I said in other post the chassis needs to lighten up, motor bulk of the weight move fwd w/more TQ, until then use your brakes in the air stop the fwd torque.
I saw some of the RZRs jumping nose high on the 90 ft table top at WORCS.My sand car is way rear heavy and it doesnt nose dive.I think it is more about being able to accelerate off of the jump face.These things will never jump far and high as long as that much mass is to the rear. Once momentum sets in theres no turning back, it only gets worse fast! 2-3 more feet it flip fwd, lucky!
One day as I said in other post the chassis needs to lighten up, motor bulk of the weight move fwd, until then use your brakes in the air stop the fwd torque.
O, really this is my son 90ft, he clocks himself fwd/rear with brakes and motor to rear tires in air, most bike/quads do, I don't see how physics changes with a UTV....Yes agree the lip and how you launch is important but rather rely on that being perfect learn to clock it imo......he launches nose high lands perfectly even so he can tq to the ground fast for racing. I taught the kid physics everything he knows, haha!
If he goes off of the jump with the throttle on it will drive the rear tires underneath and if he chops the throttle he will nose dive.Also on a quad you can move your body around,in a UTV you are belted in one spot.iYou are not considering all factors in your physics.Just my .02O, really this is my son 90ft, he clocks himself fwd/rear with brakes and motor to rear tires in air, most bike/quads do, I don't see how physics changes with a UTV....Yes agree the lip and how you launch is important but rather rely on that being perfect learn to clock it imo......he launches nose high lands perfectly even so he can tq to the ground fast for racing. I taught the kid physics everything he knows, haha!
its not always the machine as much as it is the person and the jump.. Hans is right, its about being on the gas off the lip. With that said, it needs to be the right lip. You cant just huck any jump or dune and expect a level or nose high flight. I jump in the dunes all the time, any chance I get, but I alway seek the right jump and I ALWAYS am on the gas off the lip. NEVER once have I hit the brakes to turn the car over. Physics are physics, but these are not quads.
On a quad clocking fwd to rear is a moot point, not going to happen with your body you'll end up in ER that day.....Clock left to right yes....
I know these are not quads....main point is as stated, the weight to power raitio, CG, needs to change so more get get some solid air without the tracks/racers making perfect lips....if thats what it takes forget a future in UTV racing growth...bikes/quads fight to just get water on the tracks....
I know these are not quads....main point is as stated, the weight to power raitio, CG, needs to change so more get get some solid air without the tracks/racers making perfect lips....if thats what it takes forget a future in UTV racing growth...bikes/quads fight to just get water on the tracks....
On a track you adjust to the lips...If the lips suck you drive accordingly. In the desert you best search for the perfect lip otherwise you do what the guy in the first post of the thread does. It doesn't take a degree in rocket science to understand that jumping an off-road vehicle takes way more common sense then brains.
Want to not nose dive and wreck when jumping a UTV? It comes down to 4 things..
1. Know the jump and its lip! Pre run it at moderate speeds before boosting.
2. Know the landing!
3. Approach the jump wisely and ALWAYS gas it off the lip!
4. Don't be a retard!
I like to come into the jump with speed, transition off the gas, and then hammer down up the face and off the lip. Some jumps allow for full on gas all the way through transition.
Want to not nose dive and wreck when jumping a UTV? It comes down to 4 things..
1. Know the jump and its lip! Pre run it at moderate speeds before boosting.
2. Know the landing!
3. Approach the jump wisely and ALWAYS gas it off the lip!
4. Don't be a retard!
I like to come into the jump with speed, transition off the gas, and then hammer down up the face and off the lip. Some jumps allow for full on gas all the way through transition.
We just raced on a MX track at Speedworld on a dirt bike/quad track and did every jump in our UTVs the the dirt bikes and quads did.There was 32 UTVs in class 1 and over 60 utvs total so I think were ok.I personally watched a couple of XP 1000's landing rear tires first in practice on the 90 ft table top wether you think it can happen or not.Im pretty sure they didnt change the lips of the jumps for us.On a quad clocking fwd to rear is a moot point, not going to happen with your body you'll end up in ER that day.....Clock left to right yes....
I know these are not quads....main point is as stated, the weight to power raitio, CG, needs to change so more get get some solid air without the tracks/racers making perfect lips....if thats what it takes forget a future in UTV racing growth...bikes/quads fight to just get water on the tracks....
A car setup to run fast through the desert has a different setup than a fast short course car, especially weight bias. Everyone has to remember, these are production machines. They can't be everything to everyone. Personally, I'm thrilled with the stock chassis layout and its ability to perform well on so many different types of terrain.
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BMZERO: exactly! Every car/driver is different there is no real “common sense” to it, only thing common is some basic laws of physics you get or you don’t. The rec rider may find it over thinking but you can bet the pro race teams, drivers, and techs from fab to the track got it dialed in.
Bajaxp: X2. Shock set-up(sprung/unsprung weight) is something most don’t understand, it can make a world of difference. If the forward low speed compression rate/ rebound is too slow relative to the rear, it will buck the back end like a bull. Also the fwd suspension will drop at a faster rate producing more rearward torsion around the cars CG. If your packing up in the whoops that’s a good indication it will happen on jumps. The specific car CG location will impact the results, high to the rear CG’s make aft body roll worse.
One reason quads/bikes can use their motor/brakes to clock fwd/aft easier than UTV’s is their motor is right underneath their weight centralized. As I said earlier, if the CG is to the rear as in a UTV the lever arm from the rear tires (induced torque) to the CG is less requiring more torque or less mass to move.
I’ve been watching UTV’s MX race with quads/bikes around the country on national level tracks since 2003. I’ve never seen a UTV jump 90 feet even recently I finally got a chance to go to a Cali, Soboba local race unless I missed something, I was a track official on one side of the track. No jumps more than 10 feet at best and they all lawn darted, even “pro’s”. Guess I need to get to a WORC’s race and see this personally. I think it be awesome to see finally and hope future designs allow more to do it. When it comes to racing, you don’t always have a choice to pick your lip position when your side-by-side with another racer, and when there is only split seconds to react all logic and “common sense” goes out the window.
I’ve never jumped anything 90 feet so I won’t even try and talk to the driver’s, here’s what I get for telling my sons GF to jump a small 3’ lip @ Glamis as a new owner… Funny, cost me $500 lucky we didn’t get hurt. I hope they do design out of that “nasty lawn darting thang” someday so even retard rec riders like me can have some safe fun.
Bajaxp: X2. Shock set-up(sprung/unsprung weight) is something most don’t understand, it can make a world of difference. If the forward low speed compression rate/ rebound is too slow relative to the rear, it will buck the back end like a bull. Also the fwd suspension will drop at a faster rate producing more rearward torsion around the cars CG. If your packing up in the whoops that’s a good indication it will happen on jumps. The specific car CG location will impact the results, high to the rear CG’s make aft body roll worse.
One reason quads/bikes can use their motor/brakes to clock fwd/aft easier than UTV’s is their motor is right underneath their weight centralized. As I said earlier, if the CG is to the rear as in a UTV the lever arm from the rear tires (induced torque) to the CG is less requiring more torque or less mass to move.
I’ve been watching UTV’s MX race with quads/bikes around the country on national level tracks since 2003. I’ve never seen a UTV jump 90 feet even recently I finally got a chance to go to a Cali, Soboba local race unless I missed something, I was a track official on one side of the track. No jumps more than 10 feet at best and they all lawn darted, even “pro’s”. Guess I need to get to a WORC’s race and see this personally. I think it be awesome to see finally and hope future designs allow more to do it. When it comes to racing, you don’t always have a choice to pick your lip position when your side-by-side with another racer, and when there is only split seconds to react all logic and “common sense” goes out the window.
I’ve never jumped anything 90 feet so I won’t even try and talk to the driver’s, here’s what I get for telling my sons GF to jump a small 3’ lip @ Glamis as a new owner… Funny, cost me $500 lucky we didn’t get hurt. I hope they do design out of that “nasty lawn darting thang” someday so even retard rec riders like me can have some safe fun.
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Great info guy's. Lets just let each other post their experiences or knowledge of physics concerning jumping these utv's and let the readers decide or try for themselves and see what works for them. I know who I think is right and explains themselves well, but I ain't sayin'. I just hope everyone keeps posting with info, vids or whatever to help everyone to jump these safely. I think it is a win win for everyone.
I agree that the jump has as much to do with the landing as the driver and how he executes the entire process from approach to landing. You will never see an offroad race track built for 4 wheeled vehicles, have jumps with a steep upward incline at the top of a jump. These are the jumps that will get anyone in trouble, Pro to Rookie. I have seen so many people lawn dart off of a jump like this from 4 wheelers to utv's to truck's. Myself, I would avoid jumping there and move on.
I would suggest, anyone wanting to learn to jump these sefely find an area with a long aproach, ( so you can find the best speed), leading to a gradual incline hill/jump from the bottom of the jump to the top (with no lip at the top) and that has a landing area that is still rising upward after the jump. Much easier to have a safe landing with the ground coming at you as you are going toward the ground. Have a spotter at the top to the jump to give you clearence to go. Do this jump 50 times if you have to. Hit it slow, med. and fast, with different throttle positions and you will learn a bunch about how your machine is balanced and then learn what you can do with your suspension to help with any trouble area's.
I agree that the jump has as much to do with the landing as the driver and how he executes the entire process from approach to landing. You will never see an offroad race track built for 4 wheeled vehicles, have jumps with a steep upward incline at the top of a jump. These are the jumps that will get anyone in trouble, Pro to Rookie. I have seen so many people lawn dart off of a jump like this from 4 wheelers to utv's to truck's. Myself, I would avoid jumping there and move on.
I would suggest, anyone wanting to learn to jump these sefely find an area with a long aproach, ( so you can find the best speed), leading to a gradual incline hill/jump from the bottom of the jump to the top (with no lip at the top) and that has a landing area that is still rising upward after the jump. Much easier to have a safe landing with the ground coming at you as you are going toward the ground. Have a spotter at the top to the jump to give you clearence to go. Do this jump 50 times if you have to. Hit it slow, med. and fast, with different throttle positions and you will learn a bunch about how your machine is balanced and then learn what you can do with your suspension to help with any trouble area's.
Hopefully I did this correctly as I am a computer moron.At about 8:50 and at the end of the video you you can see the 90 ft table after a couple of smaller table tops.The camera is facing backwards because they usually get coverd with mud if facing forward.<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3qs9zhKpvBY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Here is some more info from us if interested, quad racers, not all but many of the same principles. Hope it helps…years and years and countless hours on many, many tracks, turning wrenches in the garage daily, adjusting shocks, on the road, little time in ER, etc, most of all found memories father/son bonding. All serious racers have TNT’s (Terry N Trever’s) respect.
Hard to tell what’s going on above looking rear but looks like he is passing everyone lol, keeping it level which is what we do so that all 4 shocks absorb the impact or work together. We don’t want our nose high or low in the air or when we land, little high is ok, or we loose fwd momentum. The goal landing most use is to adjust the low speed compression so that your shocks bottom out at least once on the track. That will assure the setting is not too hard or soft for the rest of the jumps. Low speed compression biggest use is jumps. Rebound is important too, we adjusted so that when we land we don’t bounce back, slow it down if we do. Then go check rebound on the whoops so that our arms are retracting fully before the next extension and are not “packing up”. You’ll feel a stiff bucking action if it is packing to where you have no shock absorption left after several repetitions. If we can double or triple (jump) whoops on a track that changes the setting, rebound speed slows down, hi/lo compression changes too. If you’re racing the body roll shift to the rear upon landing impact CHP to WHP is controlled by high speed compression if you have one, it’s also useful for getting out of the gate. We also pre-load our shocks by pushing down right before launch to give us a lift boost more launch for small lipped long jumps, don’t know how to that on a UTV. When my son and I ran TNT School of ATV Racing out of Wichita , KS , we assessed each racers strengths/weakness worked with them to adjust their shocks setting’s to their level of racing first and foremost, then on to personalized racing lessons. My son is a jumper, weaker at hole-shots so we focus on them, for example. When we arrive at a race track during practice it is the first thing we do, as the track changes we adjust. I am the eyes off the track, I watch his suspension and can see if he’s packing up or not, bottoming out, HS compression on small bumps, etc, and it’s good to have a spotter with a trained eye. I have a marker board I write on to communicate while he is racing.
I’ve been on track crews. It’s challenging when you have bikes/quads/utv mix. Bikes wants steep lips and don’t like quads ruining their ruts, ruts are grooves in burms/turns they use for speed and stability quads don’t. When we race quad series only the tracks are built for quads/utv’s. UTV’s tear some tracks up their so heavy including lips, quads don’t like it. Then to make matters more challenging, you have have the pee-wee and youth classes. Can’t make the jumps as steep/long as the pro’s want not safe for the kids. Not easy! I’ve seen lots of arguments, complaints, etc….MotoX tracks usually have longer jumps less of a lip than SuperX/ArenaX where lips produce lots of short air. Some are better at MX vs. SX and visa versa, two different animals, XC, FT others, we’ve done them all as most good racers do.
There are different types of jumps, table tops are relatively flat on top, doubles have couple dips, triples few and are more dangerous if you come up short, step ups the landing is blind….you see all three in the videos below. My son’s worse injury in his racing career was a 90 foot triple he didn’t hook up on the lip it was hard packed unprepped concrete hard clay with loose dirt, came up short cased or bottom out went flying over the handle bars landed on his hand almost completely broke it off and cracked broke his ankle too….On his home practice track after just getting back from LL national in TN. Tire compound means a lot and understanding the terrain. We didn’t have a lot of choices at home to learn on so we used a MX table top. I set cones out for my son to hit and progressively move them farther away to the landing. The table top landing was a little hard, but for him getting use to the lip, then distance, than the landing worked. Later we learned in races we had to clock in the air which we did progressively too, and practice hitting all areas of launch/landing pads. We adjust our shocks along the way.
Here couple some quad videos so you can compare the difference. It’s my vision for UTV racing; I think they can jump as high/far and in numbers like this, stock with some design changes. It's more fan friendly when more are jumping and battling for podium. OC Wells and Dumont are in them.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JLLiCutz5o"]Huevos 12 - Movie Preview (ATV/Offroad Freestyle/Racing DVD) - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlfaP7tyJdc&feature=endscreen&NR=1"]huevos 9 p.1 - YouTube[/ame]
Caleb’s first attempt you can see the aft cg struggle to get it up in the air. He’s a quad guy, not much UTV’s. He and my son have raced the same TQRA regional pro class for years. In this case, again it’s easier to back flip a quad where the CG is more centered vs offset to the rear since centrifugal force acts on the UTV rear CG/roll axis to pull the UTV fwd end more forward/down than up/backspin/flip, same type of issue jumping or lawn darting. You can bet the guys @ ATR get this and everything I posted about it and have the UTV dialed in best they can with the caveat that it is to remain as stock looking as possible. No doubt in my mind the weight distribution can be improved on UTV’s and overall weight without degrading it’s ability to adopt to all kinds of different terrain and riding levels as proven by the bike/quad industry. It’s just a matter of time.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AayagYhK9uE"]ATR Caleb Moore 1st Attempt UTV Backflip Fail - UTVUnderground.MOV - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U26xSNl3Vq0"]ATR Caleb Moore 1st UTV Backflip Landed - UTVUnderground.MOV - YouTube[/ame]
Didn’t take long for Trever to jump our XP900 @ Glamis I won’t even get in the car with him driving, he’s 22 and has learned that fear can be his worse enemy from an early age. Next time we talk I’ll ask if he has any advice from a drivers view point.
But yes even my son does not agree to all my viewpoints or can put them to use nor I his. If it is useful use it otherwise don’t try it may not work for you or you may not be ready for it. Be safe!
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