Is there such a thing as excessive nerfing?

[george.felix]

Since both the 1915 and 1916 cars were nerfed out of V2R I thought it was worth bringing back this subject. Before you go off that I'm whining just consider 1915 came all the way from Austin Texas to race and spent more than most except maybe Brink to get there. They went home after less than 100 mi with $2-3,000 damage. 1916 "botched" nerf according to Cody was close to disastrous and also home early with damage.

Now that we don't have TT to worry about should we have to worry about fellow competitors? Have we just jumped from the frying pan into the fire? Matlock got hammered at Baja 500. We got hit coming out of pit 3 at V2R. No siren nothing hard enough for multiple dents to our bumper but we survived.

My question is this how it's going to be.....anyone in front of anyone risks getting hammered to the point of damage to their car and possibly more as in the case of 1916 episode. We can stipulate it's part of racing but is there a point in the spirit of sportsmanship where it's gone too far and is there a way to curb it such as a class consensus that this isn't acceptable or does it escalate to retaliation like any other sport.

Just asking.......my gf would like to get in the car but I'm afraid to expose her to what might happen. I know I'm not the fastest car and less so if she's in the car so wtf? One of the concerns about putting Brett the kid afflicted with MDA was what happens if the car gets hammered with him
In it. Brian Reno and I both nixed the idea over these kinda of concerns.

So is this worthy of discussion or just see who's car is the next to go home early? Then when does retaliation become part of the equation then someone going postal?

 

[facteryfmf]

Look, I find it complete bullshit that my nerf to Cody did any damage to his car. It ruined our steering rack pretty bad but whatever. If it did do damage, and anyone is to blame for it causing damage to his car it's his own damn fault for having a rear bumper that doesn't compensate for the tires touching!!! Their race recap contains details that the clutch was wearing out before they came to a stop. That exact problem has happened to our clutches at multiple races lately. Its a common problem and doesnt happen from being nerfed!!! Our front bumper is 6 inches longer than anyone elses for this exact reason!

 

[george.felix]

Look, I find it complete bullshit that my nerf to Cody did any damage to his car. It ruined our steering rack pretty bad but whatever. If it did do damage, and anyone is to blame for it causing damage to his car it's his own damn fault for having a rear bumper that doesn't compensate for the tires touching!!! Their race recap contains details that the clutch was wearing out before they came to a stop. That exact problem has happened to our clutches at multiple races lately. Its a common problem and doesnt happen from being nerfed!!! Our front bumper is 6 inches longer than anyone elses for this exact reason!

Ok but not to debate the specifics of any one incident you can at least see how at minimum running up hard on a car and for whatever reason making hard contact can create issues that we probably don't need. Intentional or otherwise. In your case without laying blame you didn't gain much time even if u weren't damaged and he lost everything. So my question is what's the point ?

Every incident has the car doing the nerfing explaining it away and it's always justified. The receiving end is just screwed for being at the wrong place in the race not able to out run the nerfer. It's like the biggest kid in the class picking on the smaller kids just because they can and blaming them for not being bigger.

 

[jajl22]

BITD is considered the top of the sport for UTV's, It is factory backed and results matter for some teams, and could possibly lead to bigger/smaller checks sponsorship deals etc among other things. This means very competitive racing. Are there some excessive nerfs? Ya i am sure there are. Are there some that get blown out of proportion? Ya i am sure there are. The truth usually lays somewhere in the middle.

I think an excessive nerfing rule would be very hard to implement and enforce, with out forward and rearward facing gopro footage from both vehicles.

I personally have wondered why no footage of the 1916 incident was released reward, i figured 1916 either didn't have a reward camera or it was damaged in the incident. If he does have footage maybe just didn't want to start a big public stink and handled it with Cognito personally. I dont know.

If your GF wants to get some experience in the car maybe enter a smaller series race and see how she does before throwing her in the shark tank.

Same goes for the kid with MDA, maybe somebody does a smaller series race with him to see how he fares in the car, have a realistic discussion with him about what could happen and make sure him and his parents if need be understand what can happen and accept what the consequences could be. If it was going to be a 1 race "make a wish" type deal then I would think you could run a large flag like a whip for the dunes or something to that nature denoting that he was in that car and impose penalties for nerfing that car at that specific race.

I imagine if a person is too frail to take nerf, they are probably too frail to take a hard g-out, lawn dart, or roll over type accident as well.

Sometimes you just don't belong on the race course, it is and can be a hard pill to swallow but that is just the reality of it.

I have personally attended a couple of the AZOP races that are a member on this forum. They are an Arizona based grass roots type organization, generally have low car counts for UTV 5 - 10?? would be my guess and they would make a great starter series or even 1 race for somebody looking to get experience and "try out racing"

 

[george.felix]

You hit him hard enough to take out your own steering box. So let's turn this around.... If there was no tolerance for nerfing you would not have had your steering box damaged. The govt calls it protecting people from themselves.

 

[facteryfmf]

My team is out to win every single race we enter. We don't spend the money, the time or the effort to go out and finish second place. Most guys are out there to win also. Cognito is not out for blood for any particular team. To hear everyone say we're out nerfing the shit out of everyone is just crazy. Yes, Victor got into Matlock at the 500 hard. He wasn't trying to. He was on his tail and matlock got into the brakes a bit when Victor went to nerf him. Cody says he was running in the top 5 at the time of the nerf, which Is hard for me to believe but it's possible as I haven't looked into it. I was trying to make up time from our pit 3 stop that took quite a while. I was chasing him since the road crossing. I was eating rocks and dust like crazy and I felt like I could run that PowerLine road much faster than he was even going. My job was just to get the car to pit 5 in good shape and be in the top 10. Had I known that it was going to damage our steering rack and take 40 minutes of down time to change it, i would have gone into cruise control mode. Unfortunately it wasn't what happened and almost cost my team the race. It never crossed my mind that our tires were gonna touch and throw the race away for us. I simply just wanted around him and he wasn't giving anything up. I assumed he seen me at you road crossing where there was no dust. I think it's pretty common to check your mirrors at road crossings to see if anyone Is behind you.

 

[george.felix]

BITD is considered the top of the sport for UTV's, It is factory backed and results matter for some teams, and could possibly lead to bigger/smaller checks sponsorship deals etc among other things. This means very competitive racing. Are there some excessive nerfs? Ya i am sure there are. Are there some that get blown out of proportion? Ya i am sure there are. The truth usually lays somewhere in the middle.

I think an excessive nerfing rule would be very hard to implement and enforce, with out forward and rearward facing gopro footage from both vehicles.

I personally have wondered why no footage of the 1916 incident was released reward, i figured 1916 either didn't have a reward camera or it was damaged in the incident. If he does have footage maybe just didn't want to start a big public stink and handled it with Cognito personally. I dont know.

If your GF wants to get some experience in the car maybe enter a smaller series race and see how she does before throwing her in the shark tank.

Same goes for the kid with MDA, maybe somebody does a smaller series race with him to see how he fares in the car, have a realistic discussion with him about what could happen and make sure him and his parents if need be understand what can happen and accept what the consequences could be. If it was going to be a 1 race "make a wish" type deal then I would think you could run a large flag like a whip for the dunes or something to that nature denoting that he was in that car and impose penalties for nerfing that car at that specific race.

I imagine if a person is too frail to take nerf, they are probably too frail to take a hard g-out, lawn dart, or roll over type accident as well.

Sometimes you just don't belong on the race course, it is and can be a hard pill to swallow but that is just the reality of it.

I have personally attended a couple of the AZOP races that are a member on this forum. They are an Arizona based grass roots type organization, generally have low car counts for UTV 5 - 10?? would be my guess and they would make a great starter series or even 1 race for somebody looking to get experience and "try out racing"

I think when your transmission is taken out or you destroy your car and the other car it's pretty obvious it's not a little bump to let u know im there. Interesting that the top factory teams like Sims , Jagged, UTV Inc , Murray, and others don't nerf anyone and are the top teams. I think that pretty much proves nerfing is part of winning to be bullshit.

Who's been nerfed by Johnny?

 

[facteryfmf]

You hit him hard enough to take out your own steering box. So let's turn this around.... If there was no tolerance for nerfing you would not have had your steering box damaged. The govt calls it protecting people from themselves.

The hit didn't take out the steering box. The tires touching did.

 

[george.felix]

The hit didn't take out the steering box. The tires touching did.

Ok it wasn't the gun that killed him it was the bullet! Lmao.

Btw, Johnny has beat your team nearly every race and hasn't nerfed anyone. I think that's worth at least a bit of introspection.

 

[facteryfmf]

Ok it wasn't the gun that killed him it was the bullet! Lmao.

Btw, Johnny has beat your team nearly every race and hasn't nerfed anyone. I think that's worth at least a bit of introspection.

lol. I wouldn't say nearly every race that's for sure. He's had a very successful run no doubt about it. Unfortunately we had some serious issues for a 6 race stretch that kept us from winning a few more. But yes I get where it's coming from. And also take a look back at SS300 when Johnny complained about us being towed and he had to eat our dust and kept him from winning the race. Could he have used a bumper on anyone to make up time and win the race?! These races are coming down to minutes and seconds after hundreds of miles now that it is so competitive!

 

[george.felix]

FYI I didn't mean to single Cognito out because they're not the only one. 1915 got hammered by another car. My point is it's become acceptable to hit like that. I don't see how the math works out in the reasoning that it wins races when going around is much faster and nerfing to show yourself doesn't need to destroy the other car or risk your own. I was hit just coming out of pit 3 and was plenty of room on both sides.... How was this helpful to anyone's race effort.

 

[jajl22]

I think when your transmission is taken out or you destroy your car and the other car it's pretty obvious it's not a little bump to let u know im there. Interesting that the top factory teams like Sims , Jagged, UTV Inc , Murray, and others don't nerf anyone and are the top teams. I think that pretty much proves nerfing is part of winning to be bullshit.

Who's been nerfed by Johnny?

I have never had my transmission taken out or destroyed anything. I am not affiliated with Cognito in anyway, just happend that my post entered while your conversation was happening.

I was merely commenting my opinions on your earlier post about a an excessive nerfing rule, your GF in the car, and the kid with MDA in a car.

 

[jajl22]

FYI I didn't mean to single Cognito out because they're not the only one. 1915 got hammered by another car. My point is it's become acceptable to hit like that. I don't see how the math works out in the reasoning that it wins races when going around is much faster and nerfing to show yourself doesn't need to destroy the other car or risk your own. I was hit just coming out of pit 3 and was plenty of room on both sides.... How was this helpful to anyone's race effort.

I don't know about your specific incident coming out of pit 3.

I agree with you though, if you come up on a car and have plenty of room to one side or the other to pass then i would not waste my time nerfing, hell i wouldn't even let off the throttle, just pass and be on my way further down the course.

The time i see a nerf being excusable is when your on a narrow road that does not afford enough room to pass, too many rocks and bushes etc to think about going rogue and going for a pass. Little love tap to let them know you are there, wait a bit and if you pass a couple places you feel like they could have pulled over then maybe a little bit harder tap to let them know your getting impatient.

As far as enforcing a no nerfing rule, i just don't see how you could enforce it. It would escalate from no i didn't nerf him i was just trying to follow close to get out of the dust and wait for a spot to pass and he brake checked me. To no contact is legal, then people brake check to get other teams penalties and then there is camera footage all over the place and big ol can of worms opened up again.

 

[BiggJim]

FYI I didn't mean to single Cognito out because they're not the only one. 1915 got hammered by another car. My point is it's become acceptable to hit like that. I don't see how the math works out in the reasoning that it wins races when going around is much faster and nerfing to show yourself doesn't need to destroy the other car or risk your own. I was hit just coming out of pit 3 and was plenty of room on both sides.... How was this helpful to anyone's race effort.

George go ask this on RDC.....any racer that has been racing in the 4 wheel classes for many years will tell you its the slower cars job to move over and let the faster guy around. The car in the back can not see what in front of the slower vehicle.

 

[george.felix]

George go ask this on RDC.....any racer that has been racing in the 4 wheel classes for many years will tell you its the slower cars job to move over and let the faster guy around. The car in the back can not see what in front of the slower vehicle.

Understand that but the slower car has to be given a chance to get out of the way. I'm mean be realistic no one has eyes glued to mirrors the entire race. Fast cars can come up really quick. I believe much of what's going on is blatant and nothing to do with racing and some is not blatant. I know coming out of the pits 300 yards with wide open desert on both sides and still getting hammered is blatant. It starts there.

 

[JoeyD23]

 

[Rusty5150]

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[COGNITO]

I think when your transmission is taken out or you destroy your car and the other car it's pretty obvious it's not a little bump to let u know im there. Interesting that the top factory teams like Sims , Jagged, UTV Inc , Murray, and others don't nerf anyone and are the top teams. I think that pretty much proves nerfing is part of winning to be bullshit.

Who's been nerfed by Johnny?

We been nerfed by Murray, Sappington, and Burnett and one of the Brightside guys

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[ironworks]

If the co driver would watch his mirror like he is supposed to, you would not have this problem if the slower guys ego will allow him to actually pull over for the guy who on time is already ahead of him. Other wise the guy who would not get out of the way is going to get rammed and complain on FB how some other team tried to Kill them. Get over your self and get out of the way. #Truestory.

It amazes me how many people in UTV racing must have raced any thing more then track and field before. In the real world you either hold your own or get out of the way or make room because that guy that caught you is go to the front whether you feel like it or not. People are coming through. Watch Nascar at Bristol.

The only nerfing that should not be aloud but has not been punished is the nerfing of the UTV guys by bigger a much faster vehicles. Perkins got rammed by a class 10 and Casey did nothing about it.

 

[ROTR]

I run my races with my kids as a co-dawg, for this reason I always choose rear start.
If you are worried about getting hit, start at the rear and go for the win on time corrected!