Jagged X broken CV joint

PismoSliderJX

New Member
Jun 4, 2013
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Pismo Beach
I joined the growing rider community on the Pismo Dunes this afternoon, and broke my first CV joint while on my warm-up ride. I ride a stock Jagged X, with sand paddles and the Walker Evans needle valve shock rebuild. Drove along a bowl face, hit a small jump, and the left rear CV joint was toast. So, should I replace it with the stock replacement axle/CV joint settup, or should I look for a stronger CV joint/axle combo. So far, I ride exclusively on the dune with paddles, but may try the forrest in the spring.

I have seen some discusion on other forums about too much suspension droop leading to axle binding and CV failure. Is there any truth to this theory, as my JX was in a full droop when the CV failed earlier today? Are there any magic maximum axle angles (e.g. 26 degrees, 24 degrees, 22 degrees, or ?? degrees?) Any guidance would be appreciated, as I need to get back on the dunes ASAP.

Thanks, PismoSliderJX
 

07rhintax

New Member
Mar 9, 2013
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I have no clue about this problem with the jagged x but I know a few sand cars around me use suspension straps to limit there drop for that exact reason I would hope that's not necessary with a stock jagged x, I was tossing around the idea of trying to pick one up.
 

tatum

Hans Solo - 2009 UTV Baja 500 & 1000 Winner - UTVU
Feb 10, 2009
1,450
198
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arizona
you will have much better luck with cv's and axles if you replace the factory grease with a high quality grease like swepco or belray.
 

Bajaxp

SXS Racer Extraordinaire - UTVUnderground Approved
Jan 21, 2010
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OC
Paddles are really hard on CV's and belts. Personally I just run the Big Horns with 4 psi and ALWAYS in 4WD. If your RZR has stock length shocks and is set at normal ride height, then CV angle should be ok. If the RZR is still under warranty then take it back to the dealer for repairs. If not upgrade to Summers Bros 300 M axles and with 570 CV's. Lose the paddles and go have fun! :)
 

PismoSliderJX

New Member
Jun 4, 2013
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1
Pismo Beach
I want to clarify that following my own CV joint failure, I had spoken to several other RZR drivers who were aware of CV joint failure, but had not experienced them. I believe that this is not just a Jagged X problem, but may in fact occur with other RZRs, as well as with other makes of side-by-side cars.

The idea of suspension travel limit straps may be one remedy, as the truck guys have certainly embraced that idea. I have not yet figured out how to mount the straps, however, so any suggestions would be helpful.

Some other RZRs had added an aftermarket aluminum clamp over the exposed axle, that was supposed to eliminate axle flex, which they claim leads to CV failure. I am not sure that I can get my head around that idea, but will investigate further. The product is made by KNINE products, and it looked like a clean installation.

At this point in my investigation, I believe that I am leaning towards the Dragonfire Racing HD Rear axle half shaft/CV joint combination. Both the axle and the CV joints are beefed up, which should provide greater overall strength to the system. My only concern is that the transmission would now be subjected to more stress with the stronger axle/CV joints.

I will keep the thread updated as I proceed.
 

Logan G.

Member
Feb 20, 2012
78
1
8
Highland CA
Paddles are really hard on CV's and belts. Personally I just run the Big Horns with 4 psi and ALWAYS in 4WD. If your RZR has stock length shocks and is set at normal ride height, then CV angle should be ok. If the RZR is still under warranty then take it back to the dealer for repairs. If not upgrade to Summers Bros 300 M axles and with 570 CV's. Lose the paddles and go have fun! :)
X2!! on the summer bros combo, the guys racing in the desert are using the same set up with great results.
 

PismoSliderJX

New Member
Jun 4, 2013
8
0
1
Pismo Beach
Tatum,
Thanks for the advice on changing the factory grease to a higher performance lube. I will check that out.

Bajaxp,
I appreciate the advice on the paddles, but I just love the extra bite in the soft, deep sand and would hate to lose that performance. The extra float from the wider paddle and smoothie combination is very helpful in avoiding getting stuck in the soft stuff.

This repair is on my nickel. The warranty expired three weeks ago! Thanks for the heads up on the Summers Bros 300 M axles and with 570 CV's, which I will check out.

I did go through the OEM belt at 600 miles, and have replaced it with the Gates Carbon fiber G-force belt. The jury is still out on that change.

I also did make the Walker Evans needle valve conversion, with very positive results. No more bottoming in the dips, which means that I am now able to drive harder. However, I do not know if that rebuild could have changed the ride height. Also, I have not been able to find any specs or procedure for measuring the ride height on the Jagged X, even in the shop manual. Can anyone direct me to a resource for this information?

The old drag racing saying is starting to replay in my head all of a sudden....."GO FAST, BLOW FAST". Deja Vu! My affliction, because I still "Feel the Need for Speed."
 

Bajaxp

SXS Racer Extraordinaire - UTVUnderground Approved
Jan 21, 2010
1,597
253
83
OC
Tatum is correct on the CV grease. Some even blend the two aforementioned brands together. But in the end the Belray is the better of the two....but spendy; $30/tube.

I totally disagree with your paddle assessement. Eg...if you have a heart condition, knock off the pork rhinds. I don't care what axles, CV's and grease you put in there, if you continue to use big paddles, you will continue to have issues. And this applies to all brands. Plus why smoothies on the front? You are not getting the most out of your 4wd with theses. The only time I have broken a CV in the sand was with paddles, and this was simply going through the whoops before China Wall.
 

BiggJim

I Hate Rules - UTVUnderground Approved
Jan 15, 2009
2,079
452
83
Bakersfield
I am also for the summer brother/570 set up....Also ditch the stock grease. We use a full synthetic from Mystik Lubricants.
 

XPirate

Active Member
Sep 9, 2011
794
71
28
Bakertucky
Tatum is correct on the CV grease. Some even blend the two aforementioned brands together. But in the end the Belray is the better of the two....but spendy; $30/tube.

I totally disagree with your paddle assessement. Eg...if you have a heart condition, knock off the pork rhinds. I don't care what axles, CV's and grease you put in there, if you continue to use big paddles, you will continue to have issues. And this applies to all brands. Plus why smoothies on the front? You are not getting the most out of your 4wd with theses. The only time I have broken a CV in the sand was with paddles, and this was simply going through the whoops before China Wall.

/\ /\ /\ I'd listen to this guys advice..... I could be wrong, but pretty sure this guy knows a thing or two about SxS..... Congrats on the score championship!!!
 

the stripping shop

RACER - UTVUnderground Approved
Jan 29, 2009
1,101
137
63
peoria,Az
www.strippingshop.com
if you want a set of axles with warranty and you wont brake go with turner axles only manufacter that will step up to the warranty. paddles or no paddles doesn't matter.me personally would not do any axle that has no warranty once its sold to you just my 2cents.
 

BEN@KNINE

New Member
Apr 2, 2013
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Some other RZRs had added an aftermarket aluminum clamp over the exposed axle, that was supposed to eliminate axle flex, which they claim leads to CV failure. I am not sure that I can get my head around that idea, but will investigate further. The product is made by KNINE products, and it looked like a clean installation.

At this point in my investigation, I believe that I am leaning towards the Dragonfire Racing HD Rear axle half shaft/CV joint combination. Both the axle and the CV joints are beefed up, which should provide greater overall strength to the system. My only concern is that the transmission would now be subjected to more stress with the stronger axle/CV joints.

I will keep the thread updated as I proceed.
I'll chime in, I'm one of the engineers behind the KNINE's. I'm a big fan of Summers Bros stuff, and like a few others here, would recommed that set up in a heartbeat. They know what they're doing. The 570 joints are same material (55 cup/20Cr internals) as stock 900 joints, but have a bit larger range of operating angle, and larger splines, which allows more options with shaft diameter. More than anything, the axle shaft will determine how well your CV joints hold up. You can have the biggest, strongest joints on the planet, made from the best alloy...infused with Chuck Norris's DNA...but if the shaft design is no good (for the application), they'll grenade worse than the stockers if you're pounding whoops, jumping, etc...with the pedal down.

"Both the axle and the CV joints are beefed up, which should provide greater overall strength to the system."

...here's where you have to be careful, and most guys have this completely backwards. Beefed up CV joints are great, but a beefed up axle will provide LESS OVERALL strength to the system. Unfortunately, these 'heavy duty' axles have kinda taken over in the last couple years because they are actually easier to sell/market and cheaper to make...and that big 1" axle shaft fools a lot of people.

Summers Bros (and several other high end brands) look like the correct 'necked down' shafts below, same as stock 900 shaft profile/design, but SB are high quality alloy (4340 or 300M) and the stockers are carbon steel. Alloy is not 'stronger' in the sense that it will resist twisting more than the stock shaft; this is a good thing. Both the alloy and stock shaft, of same diameter, will twist to the same degree, under the same load. BUT, the alloy has the ability to go to an even higher degree of rotation and 'spring back' to normal when load is released. But, if the shaft is not designed to do this, it's just a waste of good alloy. Here's what it all looks like...





"...to eliminate axle flex, which they claim leads to CV failure.I am not sure that I can get my head around that idea, but will investigate further. The product is made by KNINE products, and it looked like a clean installation."

No worries, some guys seem confused by these yet. Even though there are a ton of them out there. We are taking the correctly 'necked down' shaft and going a step further with it. As you can see above, the necked down shaft is far superior in eliminating torshional (torque) loads to the joints, but in doing so...the shaft will bend/bow out of shape violently, but it's more of an impact, like getting hit with a giant hammer as the tire slams the dirt...and it's doing this constantly. It's a combination of both torque loads and the violent suspension cycle.

Imagine pounding a whoop section or landing a jump...here's what's really going on back there and the forces on the axle.



Now here's with the KNINE's. It's so simple and so effective. All we're doing is first allowing the use of a much smaller diameter, 'necked down' axle shaft...and secondly, we are 'dampening' the blow to the entire system...which shoots through the shaft. All we really care about is reducing as much stress to the joints as possible, however you want to describe it.
 
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