PRODUCT SPOTLIGHT: MINOTAUR SUPER DUTY AXLE

the stripping shop

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Jan 29, 2009
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On a bolt on CV like a 930 on full size cars they are fine....on a utv they tend to float down tword the wheel end and then they end up pulling the inner joint out of the tranny...we fought it for yeas on rhinos
I guess if I think about my mechanic days front wheel drive cars with clip to hold in axle into trans were not plunging but its been awhile since I have done one. When we ran turners evo they bolt flanges together no clip.
 

BiggJim

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Jan 15, 2009
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I guess if I think about my mechanic days front wheel drive cars with clip to hold in axle into trans were not plunging but its been awhile since I have done one. When we ran turners evo they bolt flanges together no clip.
Id say a front wheel drive car with 8"s of travel on the road would be a whole different animal. Back in the day I was running the gorrillas on a SCF kit....with 12-14"s of travel on rhinos....in the play conditions they were impossible to keep in the differential. It was a mess. The only thing I could attribute the problem to was a double plunging axles. Once I went back to the OEM style single plunging axles the problem went away. I suspect it will be the same way in a RZR with a double plunging axle.
 

NIKAL

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May 13, 2012
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I'm curious how many teams or builders know how to measure axle length? I would assume most are not just buying cv/axles and sticking them in, right? Also how many have taken a dry CV / Axle assembly without boots and cycled the suspension, watching and measuring what it is doing through out the suspension travel? If you really want to get freaked out you can measure your toe and camber as you cycle the suspension, but that is for another thread!

Don't be afraid to answer as this is how many are going to learn? And don't be shy and send me another PM.
 

the stripping shop

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Nikal rear of Rzr has horrible would you call it bump steer. But Mr Sims gets it the closet when he aligns his car especially if he toes it in a certain amount which I am pretty sure he figured it. Plus it dramatically reduces bump steer.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

BiggJim

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I was more thinking when clip style in diff/trans doesn't like to be plunged style because clip is the weak link. Front wheel drive 8" of travel plus steering most likely equals to more stress then 12" of travel lol.
The point I was trying to make with the street car is you not run high speeds while that suspension is cycling from full droop to full bump all while the floating axles is all the way to one end of it movement. Gorilla even had some Gnarley circlips to replace the stock style clip that still didnt hold. This is the finding I have based on the problem I had. I wouldnt run a double plunging axle on a UTV if I was paid to do so.
 

the stripping shop

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The point I was trying to make with the street car is you not run high speeds while that suspension is cycling from full droop to full bump all while the floating axles is all the way to one end of it movement. Gorilla even had some Gnarley circlips to replace the stock style clip that still didnt hold. This is the finding I have based on the problem I had. I wouldnt run a double plunging axle on a UTV if I was paid to do so.
Totally agree with you and yes I had a stupid gorilla axle get stuck in rear diff not funny. But if you wanted to run double plunging axle you would have to make a bolt together hub for trans side to work. If clip style cant have plunge side on trans side or will pull out. That's why the double plunge work on class 10/1/16 cars not the utv. Question could you bring the 2 worlds together on axles and cv's, to make them more bulletproof. But then you run into the next problem will the trans take the abuse? Were do leave the weak link or go big or go home. 1 problem causes another.
 

BiggJim

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Totally agree with you and yes I had a stupid gorilla axle get stuck in rear diff not funny. But if you wanted to run double plunging axle you would have to make a bolt together hub for trans side to work. If clip style cant have plunge side on trans side or will pull out. That's why the double plunge work on class 10/1/16 cars not the utv. Question could you bring the 2 worlds together on axles and cv's, to make them more bulletproof. But then you run into the next problem will the trans take the abuse? Were do leave the weak link or go big or go home. 1 problem causes another.
I agree that you would have to bolt them together to make it work. In my opinion the guys having problems in the XP1K either 1, dont do a good job prepping their car, 2, are using poor quality parts or 3, they drive it like a rental with the insurance....or a combination of all 3. The last CV or Axle we have broke was at Vegas 2 Reno 2013....its was self inflicted.
 

motive

Active Member
Jan 12, 2014
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There is no reason a double plunge axle won't work on a utv. But they are very temperamental on length. Too short and they will pull out. Too long and like BiggJim said, the shaft will float to one end and contact the inside of the cup causing it to bind and can also pull the stub out of the trans.

I am pretty sure 96% of the race cars run what ever their kit comes with never questioning that the axles are the right length. Case in point is our car. When we went to order axles we specifically asked how they wanted us to measure the lengths to order them. All they said was just tell us what kit you put on your car. "Its custom, its not a kit." Ok, so is it a plus 3 or a plus 4? We literally had to hold their hand to get the right axles. They kept telling us the first length they sent was right and we told them not a chance. We measured star to star and gave them the exact length and they still didn't want to make it not believing us. UTVWC an axle popped out with their length. Mint400 not a problem with the length we told them to make it. And yes, they are double plunging.
 

the stripping shop

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Jan 29, 2009
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There is no reason a double plunge axle won't work on a utv. But they are very temperamental on length. Too short and they will pull out. Too long and like BiggJim said, the shaft will float to one end and contact the inside of the cup causing it to bind and can also pull the stub out of the trans.

I am pretty sure 96% of the race cars run what ever their kit comes with never questioning that the axles are the right length. Case in point is our car. When we went to order axles we specifically asked how they wanted us to measure the lengths to order them. All they said was just tell us what kit you put on your car. "Its custom, its not a kit." Ok, so is it a plus 3 or a plus 4? We literally had to hold their hand to get the right axles. They kept telling us the first length they sent was right and we told them not a chance. We measured star to star and gave them the exact length and they still didn't want to make it not believing us. UTVWC an axle popped out with their length. Mint400 not a problem with the length we told them to make it. And yes, they are double plunging.
What if you changed toe on rear end would that change dramatically. I would guess with you guys being smart and adjusting rear toe you came up with axles about 7/16" longer then the normal + what ever. hint hint on toe.
 
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motive

Active Member
Jan 12, 2014
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Yes. Toe on the rear of a polaris effects axle length. You need to have it set before measuring axle length. If you bend a trailing arm and reset the toe, your measurements will be different.
 

Bai zhongmin

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Apr 12, 2016
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I have been worked in a company in China about 16 years ago supply the CV components to RCV for their CV rebuilding kits, so I knew the RCV the successful story.

On this RCV Minotaur axle, let me say, some ones use lift kits and big tires to lift the ATV. so the angle of the CV axle and the torque on it increases, this cause the CV axle failure often when rocky terrain and mud race, mainly shaft broken. how to make the shaft more stronger? 1,improve the shaft profile to decrease the stress concentration, 2,use best strength steel like 4340 and correct hard treatment (in China, we use 5140 mostly, which can meet the original design for torque requirement). 3 increasing the shaft dimension, this is easiest way, but will affect the CV axle working angles, for most ATV, the outer CV joint with wheel is fixed joint of BJ style like GKN's, the allowance angle is about 49 degree, the inner CV joint with differential is plunging joint of DOJ style, the allowance angle is about 25 degree.If the shaft diameter increased, the allowance angle will decrease, specially for DOJ CV joint, so we can use the fixed joint with special inside form to replace the plunging joint to achieve the big working angle, and use the shaft travelling with the inner race to achieve the plunging, by this way, the max allowance angle of inner CV joint will be about 44 degree, and the shaft travel is still about 2 inch (50mm), and the lager diameter shaft strength increased than stock. from my many years' working experiences on CV axle, I think RCV this Minotaur axle is this style, I just want to share this thoughts with others. RCV is the best company in this market who gave the player the strongest axle, specially for the enthusiast with extended Aarm of long travel, RCV is our model we study. it's lucky for me here to talk to everyone on the axle and accessories for ATV and UTV. Thanks!
 

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