UTV racing rules Suggestions, volunteers, input please

[rupert14]

I know there has been some discussion about rules for BITD etc. Lets keep things posative, avoid getting personal, and try to contribute to the expansion of our sport.

We have two issues:

1. I think we can all agree that there needs to be some expansion of the regulation body that dictates and enforces the rules. I think everyone currently involved is doing there best to contribute to the sport but we all know the limitations and challenges that are now apparent. I am guessing that if we were willing to help, the groups currently making and enforcing the rules would welcome the support. I am willing to help. I can't go to every UTV race but I will do what I can. I will race the whole 2011 BITD series and possably the Whiplash series as well. I don't represent a manufacturer, sanctioning body, or anything other than the fact that I am a racer. I want to help and if you are, let us know who you are and what you can do to help.

2. Let's discuss possable solutions the the race rules. I feel we need to make the changes necessary to keep the classes as well attended as possable.

It has been stated that if the UTVRA increases the pro CC limit to 1000, then the attendance will drop. They should keep the 800 class and add a up to 1000cc to keep the racers they already have.

I agree with this but I would take it one step further. I would make any engine from 800-1000cc race together. SR-1, an R-1 in a Teryx, any factory 1000 etc. There is already a good turnout for the 800cc class, why change it? About the time we get a good turnout for a class, we change the rules. Just lump all over 800 together until that class is well attended and then split them up.

The goal is to get as many people out racing as possable. That is what makes it fun, builds the payback, and promotes the sport.

If we use the current rules and expand them to 1000cc then basically all the people that race rhinos will most likely drop out as well as some others. Rhinos are already underpowered but luckily there are still some coming out.

I see two possable solutions for desert racing:

#1
Keep the current 800 class and basically expand the sportsman class to include all motors up to 1000cc. Hopefully there will be no loss of the current up to 800 racers and there will inevitably be more of the 800-1000 as the manufacturers come out with bigger stuff. If the entries permit, it can be broken up next year. If the current 800 class is moved up to 1000, I agree that there will be some racers that are pushed out which is exactly what damages our sport.

#2
Have an experiment. Tell everyone that for one or two races, there will be an experimental "single cylnder class". Anything with one piston can race together. The reason I say this is because there are more rhinos out there than most other UTV's combined. We all know a race built rhino can be had for 15K or less race ready. If we could keep a class that somehow keeps the grass roots of UTV racing alive (affordable fun for everyone) then perhaps we could increase the number of racers coming out. In this economy it seems UTV racing is becoming a class that many folks can't afford. Cory once told me there is no such thing as cheap racing and I agree. Unfortunately the UTV class is getting more and more expensive. Years ago you could take your dune rhino, add a cage and long travel, and go race. Those days are over and there are many built rhinos sitting in garages collecting dust. I know several guys that would buy one and race but they know there is no class for them anymore.

For the short course guys, it seems the SR-1 class is well attended and it should be kept a separate class. I really don't have much to say there because I only race short course with Whiplash.

Bring your suggestions and volunteer to help if you can. I am willing to help, be on a board, or otherwise contribute however I can in order to further the sport.

[Darryl89]

I would go with #none, as I'm in the buildup stage of a 951cc Prowler for competing in BITD and you are excluding my XTZ.

I can understand that there are alot of Rhinos out there, personally, if I had one, it would become a SR1 very soon. This racing, racing means going fast. No, I don't want to see the small motors go away, but there does need to be some way to include all. Either break the Pro Class into 2 classes, or give the over 800cc motors a weight penalty, or just let them all run. We already have talked on another thread about this same possibility and most of the experienced desert racers said it doesn't really matter how many cc's you have.
Now if you push the 1000cc guys (which includes many 840 Teryx's, all the Can Am X's, the Arctic Cat XTZ's and the new John Deere's that are coming out) into a sportsman class, then I'll go find another place to race, if I win, hey I want some payback and points towards a championship, I'm sure many others will to.

As for the guys that have Rhinos laying around that won't be competitive against bigger bore machines, convert them to SR1s. Or run them as they are and let the better prepped machine win. It's the driver, the prep and pit/repair action that will win or lose a desert race usually.

[rupert14]

Originally Posted by Darryl89

I would go with #none, as I'm in the buildup stage of a 951cc Prowler for competing in BITD and you are excluding my XTZ.

I can understand that there are alot of Rhinos out there, personally, if I had one, it would become a SR1 very soon. This racing, racing means going fast. No, I don't want to see the small motors go away, but there does need to be some way to include all. Either break the Pro Class into 2 classes, or give the over 800cc motors a weight penalty, or just let them all run. We already have talked on another thread about this same possibility and most of the experienced desert racers said it doesn't really matter how many cc's you have.
Now if you push the 1000cc guys (which includes many 840 Teryx's, all the Can Am X's, the Arctic Cat XTZ's and the new John Deere's that are coming out) into a sportsman class, then I'll go find another place to race, if I win, hey I want some payback and points towards a championship, I'm sure many others will to.

We would still have three classes, seems like there would be a spot for everyone, and if a class dwindles, combine it with sportsman




As for the guys that have Rhinos laying around that won't be competitive against bigger bore machines, convert them to SR1s. Or run them as they are and let the better prepped machine win. It's the driver, the prep and pit/repair action that will win or lose a desert race usually.

I agree that we should have a pro class for the big machines. If there are that many new cars to race against, how about a pro up to 800 and a pro 1000. All the people that are currently racing would have no reason to stop as there is no change to the rules and those that have one of the many bigger machines should be happy racing eachother. If we keep all the current racers and add some of the new 800-1000 cars we could have 20+ racers at a BITD race. Want to promote the sport, show up with that many cars. Having three that go way fast does not do much to help us grow and bring attention from sponsors etc.

I have a Teryx that will be at the Henderson in preparation to run the whole next season at BITD. I could punch it out and be competative, but I don't want to see this series do the same thing as the last series did when the allowed all the motor swap and bigger cars to run. Everyone quit coming. I know part of it is the economy but when I have contacted some of the racers from last year they all said they don't come because they are not competative anymore. I support a pro class all the way and when I previously said to combine the sportsman class I should have clarified that.

Here is what BITD currently has:
1 PRO up to 800
2. Sportsman
3. SR-1

How about this:

1. Pro up to 800
2. Pro 800-1000
3. Sportsman ( all cars up to 1000 just like they currently are. Allow rhinos with engine swaps ie. teryx, can am, or cat as well as SR-1. any motor any make up to 1000 to let the old rhino guys have a class to race in if they want to swap rather than rebuild)

[Darryl89]

Originally Posted by rupert14

I agree that we should have a pro class for the big machines. If there are that many new cars to race against, how about a pro up to 800 and a pro 1000. All the people that are currently racing would have no reason to stop as there is no change to the rules and those that have one of the many bigger machines should be happy racing eachother. If we keep all the current racers and add some of the new 800-1000 cars we could have 20+ racers at a BITD race. Want to promote the sport, show up with that many cars. Having three that go way fast does not do much to help us grow and bring attention from sponsors etc.

I agree with having a class for the bigger cars. But that has already been discussed at length on another thread. And most of the racing consensus was that it should just be Pro UTV up to 1000cc and Sportsman class. Most of the experienced desert racers said motor size won't matter really...That I can see...

[rupert14]

Originally Posted by Darryl89

I agree with having a class for the bigger cars. But that has already been discussed at length on another thread. And most of the racing consensus was that it should just be Pro UTV up to 1000cc and Sportsman class. Most of the experienced desert racers said motor size won't matter really...That I can see...

To those of us that can go bigger and stay competative, it is no big deal. To those that are already pushing their machines to the limit and not winning, the thought of racing against even larger motors takes the fun out of going to the race.

I started this thread simply because I hope thre are enough people concerned about the sport to chime in and be willing to help. If we don't help it grow, we can't complain about anything. I just want to help however I can and the "other thread" has a lot of finger pointing going on so I wanted to get away from that. I will be racing pro no matter what the engine size is, I just hope all the current competators come back next year.

Example: Jagged X has been doing well the last couple years. How many cars do you think a factory sponsored team like them would show up with if they already have a good 800 car, there is still an 800 class, and there is a new 1000 class for the new polaris they will inevitably be racing next season. I think teams like that just may show up with two cars rather than sell the old one and come with just one. If there was a class I could have been competative in, I would have kept my series winning rhino from last year and my team would have raced it along with my unlimited pro UTV that I won with this year.

[Darryl89]

Originally Posted by rupert14

To those of us that can go bigger and stay competative, it is no big deal. To those that are already pushing their machines to the limit and not winning, the thought of racing against even larger motors takes the fun out of going to the race.

I started this thread simply because I hope thre are enough people concerned about the sport to chime in and be willing to help. If we don't help it grow, we can't complain about anything. I just want to help however I can and the "other thread" has a lot of finger pointing going on so I wanted to get away from that. I will be racing pro no matter what the engine size is, I just hope all the current competators come back next year.

Example: Jagged X has been doing well the last couple years. How many cars do you think a factory sponsored team like them would show up with if they already have a good 800 car, there is still an 800 class, and there is a new 1000 class for the new polaris they will inevitably be racing next season. I think teams like that just may show up with two cars rather than sell the old one and come with just one. If there was a class I could have been competative in, I would have kept my series winning rhino from last year and my team would have raced it along with my unlimited pro UTV that I won with this year.

I can see your point. As long as the big cars don't get pushed to sportsman only class, I'm happy. I can deal with weight penalties or running the big cars in a seperate pro class.
You are right about trying to keep as many cars racing total, that will be good for the sport. Good point about teams keeping the older car to run a second class, that very well could be and is likely to happen. I didn't think about that.
Even if there are two pro classes, run them together at the same time and you will still have some pretty good dicing going on out there, would make for interesting racing.

[rupert14]

[QUOTE=Even if there are two pro classes, run them together at the same time and you will still have some pretty good dicing going on out there, would make for interesting racing.[/QUOTE]

I completely agree. It is fun to race when there are a lot of cars out there, even if not all of them are in your class. It does not seem like many people agree so we will see what happens.

See you at the races. Nice to see another big cat getting ready to run. Bi-Polar did well and they ran stock suspension. I am curious to see what it will do with a full race build.

[the stripping shop]

the first thing i will say how many guys ran the complete season 2010 bitd season. I wil tell you 5 guys only 5 guys now how do you make that number increase. there are 3 rzr and 2 rhinos and i want to say the rhino is close enough to get the championship. I will say bitd is trying to get more utv to attend the races.Look at john deere they have showed the most interest so the rule needed to be changed. Do you increase cc for them or for all. I think the more manufactures involved the more people involved. Look at lucas only one manufacter involved in pro class and only 4 to 5 guys show up. If you increase cc you have john deere,articat,can am,polaris,yamaha, kawasaki that can all race together. Now i know what peolpe are going to say 800cc would do same thing. Yes and no take articat,john deere, and can-am guys out. Now you are left with same class you had last year.I can tell you this john deere 2 to 3 guys that will races a complete season. Can am 3 guys that will race a complete season. Articat maybe 1 a complete season. Polaris 2-5 guys a complete season. Kawasaki 1 guy for sure.Yamaha guys maybe 1 guy. 9 guys for sure in points. Do we split that in half or what would you guys do. I still say there should be a board for this situation.

[Darryl89]

Originally Posted by the stripping shop

the first thing i will say how many guys ran the complete season 2010 bitd season. I wil tell you 5 guys only 5 guys now how do you make that number increase. there are 3 rzr and 2 rhinos and i want to say the rhino is close enough to get the championship. I will say bitd is trying to get more utv to attend the races.Look at john deere they have showed the most interest so the rule needed to be changed. Do you increase cc for them or for all. I think the more manufactures involved the more people involved. Look at lucas only one manufacter involved in pro class and only 4 to 5 guys show up. If you increase cc you have john deere,articat,can am,polaris,yamaha, kawasaki that can all race together. Now i know what peolpe are going to say 800cc would do same thing. Yes and no take articat,john deere, and can-am guys out. Now you are left with same class you had last year.I can tell you this john deere 2 to 3 guys that will races a complete season. Can am 3 guys that will race a complete season. Articat maybe 1 a complete season. Polaris 2-5 guys a complete season. Kawasaki 1 guy for sure.Yamaha guys maybe 1 guy. 9 guys for sure in points. Do we split that in half or what would you guys do. I still say there should be a board for this situation.

I agree, a board to set the rules would be the best thing. Cory has done an admirable job for what he has to work with. There are grumblings that he is being self serving with the new rules, but I would say, if you don't like it, step forward and help set up a board that can set the rules. If you speak up, step up. I'll step up and offer my assistance on this. And I'm sure many others will too.

Yes, John Deere is building a race program and has some pretty interesting machines being developed, just wait and see what they have next year. And Arctic Cat is working on getting back into racing with a full program (and there looks to be 2 or 3 teams that will be running the Arctic Cat banner next year).

One restriction to BITD racing is it's costs. Typically, a UTV racer chooses UTV's to race since they are so much cheaper to build and run than say a class 1500 or 7200 vehicle. But excessive race and tracker and association and etc fees eats away at many racers, so they end up picking and choosing which races to run. Current BITD rules require you to run the full season to be eligible for Championship points. So right there, they have narrowed the field down themselves.
And by limiting the cc's to under 801, they cut out John Deere, Can Am 1000's and Arctic Cat 1000's. But soon, Yamaha and Polaris will have big bore machines out. And what about the 840 kit the is a dealer option for the Teryx next year.
There is now way about it, the classes are eventually going to have to be split in to the big machines and little ones (or should I say cc disadvantaged). They can still be run at the same time and the purses will be less since there would be less cars in each class, but the challenge and fun would still be there. Just think how many of those screaming 660 Rhinos are going to be out to whoop that 951cc Arctic Cat even though they aren't in the same class.

I would like to see 10 cars in each class, but with the costs of racing being what they are, it will take time to grow. It took motocross many years of struggling before it took off. I remember racing many races back in the 70's where there were 3 or 4 racers in the pro classes. Now there are dozens in each class, battling it out. It'll take time and lots of commitment by all of us to build the UTV classes. We may have to realize that our payouts aren't going to be big, but we also have to realize that running 2 or 3 cars in a class really isn't good for the sport either. Where is the happy medium...
All things for a board to work on and consider...

[Brian B]

Originally Posted by rupert14

If we use the current rules and expand them to 1000cc then basically all the people that race rhinos will most likely drop out as well as some others. Rhinos are already underpowered but luckily there are still some coming out.

I feel like I should mention this again...

I have spoken with Cory and Rotax powered Rhino's are now allowed to run sportsman. If we can find 5 or more racers we can have our out "pro" class.

If any Rhino racers want to take advantage of this, I'm doing cost sponsorships for the first 5 guys with a decent resume!