32" Tires

[Rynomx785]

With the rules allowing 32" tires or the 2016 season I am curious to see what the racers thoughts are on running tires that large? Is everybody planning on moving to them this season? If so, what are your thoughts on the extra stress on the belt and the rest of the drivetrain? Seems like belts and axles are already a legitimate problem of 30's.

 

[facteryfmf]

Who has belt and axle issues

 

[NIKAL]

The teams that test and figure out the 32" tire first will have a big advantage over those who don't. I also see the 32" being a bigger benefit for the longer wheelbase 4 seat chassis cars. I also don't think a 2 seat chassis will be as competitive against a 4 seat chassis with 32" tires IMO. That is how much I think the larger tire is going to be an advantage.

I've had a few teams approach me asking what I think about the larger tire, from my past experiences. I also think its time to start thinking outside the box in regards to the weak links in the drive-train. Buying the same parts off the shelve that everyone else is and having issues with, is not going to cut it.

 

[Rynomx785]

So you guys think that a RZR with a stock motor with that is clutched properly will handle 32's with minimal issues?

Obviously you going to lose a significant amount of power and have a taller overall gear ratio. It's not like there a extra power to lose on these things. I would love to go to 32" tire because of the benefits NIKAL talked about but that is a huge jump from the stock tires as far gearing goes.

 

[Rynomx785]

Is anybody making gear sets for the 1000?

Doesn't the highlifter model have lower gearing? I wonder it that is a feasible option?

 

[BRONCOBOY]

We am trying to get to Parker with a new 2 seat car and want to test with the new 32" ITP tires. I have been told that the 30" ITP weighs 35.17 pounds and a 32" weighs 39.49 pounds. I have not heard the weight difference between the ITP 15" single beadlock and a 14" dual beadlock I have now. We assume the wheels may be close in weight so best I cal tell we may add 4 to 6 pounds per corner.
If we use a aluminum hat that will shave 2.5 pounds per corner and streamline claims there brake kit will shave a half pound also, the only other way is to start grooving the tire or shaving the side to reduce the tire weight a little more. That said we may be within a couple of pounds but the added leverage of the increased diameter is the unknown.
We have not broke a axle yet but only have the last PURE race as a shake down on the car. School me what is breaking? is it the Axle itself or the CV cage? I am surprised no one has made any 300m replacement parts for these CV's. There is not enough meat in the star to broach and increase axle diameter, this may be the biggest issue is increasing the axle dia some how. Is a Turner Axle or RCV going to help? I have heard good reviews on the Turners but negative on the RCV axles.

Thanks
Mike Nix

 

[Rynomx785]

The weight is one thing but the extra leverage the taller tire has will have an effect too.

 

[BRONCOBOY]

Just spoke with Todd at ITP and the wheel weight difference is less than 1 pound

 

[NIKAL]

Why is everyone so set on running cast wheels? There is weight to be saved by not running a cast wheel. Also are beadlocks necessary? How many have actually needed a beadlock wheel? Are you blowing the bead off the wheel or have the HP to spin the tire on the wheel? Or are you running what everyone else runs, so it must be the best? What do other limited buggy classes run?

Also when a team beaks an axle, CV, CV boot or whatever. What is the the teams post race procedure? Do you go to your parts shop and buy another one? Do you call the manufacture about the failure? Do you investigate how and why it failed? Do you look outside the same handful of brands that people are buying and racing on? Has anyone ever researched to building or working with a machine shop to building your own parts?

 

[BiggJim]

Why is everyone so set on running cast wheels? There is weight to be saved by not running a cast wheel. Also are beadlocks necessary? How many have actually needed a beadlock wheel? Are you blowing the bead off the wheel or have the HP to spin the tire on the wheel? Or are you running what everyone else runs, so it must be the best? What do other limited buggy classes run?

Also when a team beaks an axle, CV, CV boot or whatever. What is the the teams post race procedure? Do you go to your parts shop and buy another one? Do you call the manufacture about the failure? Do you investigate how and why it failed? Do you look outside the same handful of brands that people are buying and racing on? Has anyone ever researched to building or working with a machine shop to building your own parts?

Spun wheels dont live on these cars. I think the OMF's billet centers work slightly better than the standard spun wheels. But I believe they still bend the centers. They are also 5-600 dollars per wheel. Most of the guys having axle failures regularly are most likely self inflicted. IDK about you....but I have had beadlock wheels save my ass in recreation....I would never risk that in a race.

 

[NIKAL]

Spun wheels dont live on these cars. I think the OMF's billet centers work slightly better than the standard spun wheels. But I believe they still bend the centers. They are also 5-600 dollars per wheel. Most of the guys having axle failures regularly are most likely self inflicted. IDK about you....but I have had beadlock wheels save my ass in recreation....I would never risk that in a race.

I'm only asking, how does a spun wheel survive on a faster, less wheel travel car, or even a car that is heavier then a UTV. Could the bent centers be bacause of the small tight lug pattern found on the UTV?

For example the 5 wide VW pattern is used on everything from class 11 to class 1. Could a wider more common lug pattern fix the bent wheel centers?

Yes many times in recreation we air down the tires, so a beadlock can be beneficial. But when aired up like you would for a race, I wonder if a beadlock is really nessisary? Also we are now talking about a 15" wheel as this will be the norm now. 14" will be a thing of the past or for guys still running smaller tires. Remember when a 28" tire was the trick setup!

 

[Rynomx785]

Are most teams running 15" wheels? I'd rather have 14's....

 

[shane88]

At the moment we still plan on running 30" tires.....32" would be great if we had the power to pull them to 80-85mph but we can barely hit 85 with 30" tires. If we had the power Scott Yancy's N/A Rzr had then maybe we could! And with the current rules people try to say turbos have an advantage LOL!

 

[Rynomx785]

At the moment we still plan on running 30" tires.....32" would be great if we had the power to pull them to 80-85mph but we can barely hit 85 with 30" tires. If we had the power Scott Yancy's N/A Rzr had then maybe we could! And with the current rules people try to say turbos have an advantage LOL!

That is what I was thinking.....Especially if the track has any long stretches in sand washes.

It would be nice to be able to go to lower gear sets.

 

[BiggJim]

I'm only asking, how does a spun wheel survive on a faster, less wheel travel car, or even a car that is heavier then a UTV. Could the bent centers be bacause of the small tight lug pattern found on the UTV?

For example the 5 wide VW pattern is used on everything from class 11 to class 1. Could a wider more common lug pattern fix the bent wheel centers?

Yes many times in recreation we air down the tires, so a beadlock can be beneficial. But when aired up like you would for a race, I wonder if a beadlock is really nessisary? Also we are now talking about a 15" wheel as this will be the norm now. 14" will be a thing of the past or for guys still running smaller tires. Remember when a 28" tire was the trick setup!

The wide 5 pattern maybe why the spun wheels live on the limited buggies. Good question, either that or the spun wheels build for UTV's are not built as heavy duty as the wheels built for the VW platform. The spun wheels for a UTV came from ATV designs.

By the time you got a flat it may not matter...but I have seen our beads busted on flat tires, the only thing holding the tire on is the beadlock ring.

 

[BiggJim]

At the moment we still plan on running 30" tires.....32" would be great if we had the power to pull them to 80-85mph but we can barely hit 85 with 30" tires. If we had the power Scott Yancy's N/A Rzr had then maybe we could! And with the current rules people try to say turbos have an advantage LOL!

Come on Shane..... How often are you running at 85mph? The torque the turbos have across the whole range of rpm is far more valuable than the top speed on asphalt....that car only pulled you cause your turbo is out of wind at that RPM range....and that RPM range is only used when running 85mph on asphalt.

 

[shane88]

I agree the torque of the turbos is greater than the Rzr. Our shiftout stays where we make peak power until we hit full shift of the clutches which is about 70mph, and from 50mph-85mph he pulled us like a freight train and kept on pulling once we hit our top speed, his pit manager told us they hit 93mph on the gps. We don't have the power or torque at any rpm to pull those speeds, so his Rzr is clearly making more power and good for him.... Im not mad at him lol. Also did you see the start how he pulled us in the dirt as well, so the surface being pavement is a mute point. All I'm saying is his Rzr is a monster and that a NA rzr can be built to outrun the turbos with the current rules limiting the mods you can do to the turbos.

 

[BiggJim]

I agree the torque of the turbos is greater than the Rzr. Our shiftout stays where we make peak power until we hit full shift of the clutches which is about 70mph, and from 50mph-85mph he pulled us like a freight train and kept on pulling once we hit our top speed, his pit manager told us they hit 93mph on the gps. We don't have the power or torque at any rpm to pull those speeds, so his Rzr is clearly making more power and good for him Im not mad at him lol. Also did you see the start how he pull us in the dirt as well, so the surface being pavement is a mute point. All I'm saying is his Rzr is a monster and that a NA rzr can be built to outrun the turbos with the current rules limiting the mods you can do to the turbos.

Our car wont do 90....same motor builder....unless they have done more to it since we turned the car over to them. The only concussion I can come up with is they were ringing its neck to get it to that speed. We wont rev the guts out of ours. Unfortunately I had to miss the start in order to get out to pit A....Speaking of fast cars....Your guys car is the only one that looks fast to me. Your guys car looks 10mph faster than any other car going thru the parker python at BWDC.

 

[facteryfmf]

Our car wont do 90....same motor builder....unless they have done more to it since we turned the car over to them. The only concussion I can come up with is they were ringing its neck to get it to that speed. We wont rev the guts out of ours. Unfortunately I had to miss the start in order to get out to pit A....Speaking of fast cars....Your guys car is the only one that looks fast to me. Your guys car looks 10mph faster than any other car going thru the parker python at BWDC.

I don't even think we hit 85 this weekend....

 

[NIKAL]

What I have learned over the years is top speed is so variable in desert racing that it does not mean much. How do you deturmin what fast or faster is? You can have more HP, but get beat in a sand wash because your torque #'s are low or your power band is in the wrong location. I've seen guys that are wicked fast on pole line roads and pass guys like they are standing still, but because of poor suspension tuning they cant get the power to the ground in the rough or whoops and get passed back. How does your tires hook up on hard pack or soft wash? And most of the time the biggest issue is driver control and when on & off the power. Because I have been around class 1's & TT's I have got to see all the data acquisition tools they have and how they can see throttle and braking. Many times when a driver says he was full throttle or pinned, you can go back and find out they might have been for a few seconds, but most of the time you are not even 3/4 wide open on the throttle, maybe even 1/2 throttle. I too thought I was fast until I had a throttle peddle stick at maybe 3/4 open. It scared the shit out of me and after that I realized as was not as fast as I thought.

If you really analyze it, desert racing is short sprints between turns or bumps. In reality being on & off the throttle, setting the vehicle up for the bump, or when you enter a turn and how you back up a turn, or where you accelerate when exiting a turn can make you faster then more HP actually will. This is why guys like McMillin's Menzies and several others have gone to rally driving schools. They teach you all tricks to keeping momentum and how smooth is fast.