A letter from the Govt. about Johnson Valley....

JoeyD23

#utvunderground
Jan 9, 2009
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What We Have to Say About Johnson Valley

By John Conger, Acting Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Installations and Environment at the Department of Defense.

Thank you for your petition.

The Administration's proposal for expansion of the land reserved for use by the Marine Corps balances Marine Corps training requirements that extend throughout the year with preserving safe public access for recreational activities within certain areas of the Johnson Valley Off-Highway Vehicle (OHV) Area. The proposal was transmitted to Congress for consideration on April 26, 2013, because, for areas greater than 5,000 acres, Congress is responsible for creating and renewing withdrawal of public land for military training and testing.

This base expansion plan was developed over the course of nine years in consultation with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), community leaders, and recreational users and was subject to an environmental impact statement that assessed the needs, alternatives and impacts of large-scale training exercises at the Twentynine Palms Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center.

If enacted, the proposal would affect approximately 188,000 acres of the Johnson Valley Area: 42,000 acres would be designated for recreational use, 43,000 acres would be shared recreational and military use, and 103,000 acres would be reserved for exclusive military use. The 42,000 acre recreational use area and the 43,000 acre shared use area would remain under the jurisdiction of the Secretary of the Interior, managed by the BLM. The 43,000 acre shared use area would be available for public recreation, except for two 30-day periods annually, when it would be closed to the public for military use. In addition, the Administration also proposes to designate these approximately 85,000 acres of land (the 42,000 acres and 43,000 acres referenced above) as the “Johnson Valley Off Highway Vehicle Recreation Area†under management of the BLM. This area would remain available for OHV recreational activities, both informal and organized. Approximately 103,000 acres of the 188,000 acre area would be reserved for exclusive military use. The King of the Hammers race is an example of the type of organized race that could continue in the shared use area. This race, which has in the past crossed both what would be the shared use area and the exclusive use area, has been a significant generator of economic activity associated with OHV recreation in the Johnson Valley Area, accounting for over 15% of the total yearly visitation. In addition the Marine Corps will consider, on a case by case basis and under controlled conditions, the use of this exclusive military use area for organized races, including the King of the Hammers race.

Enactment of this proposal is essential to provide the space required to train Marines for specific missions and to ensure the Marines' continued success when called upon. There are no other Marine Corps properties where this requirement can be met. Marines need to train in as close to a real-world setting as possible and Marine Expeditionary Brigade (MEB) training must allow Marines to conduct intensive operations over extended distances that allow for maneuvering in the presence of ground and air live-fire. A MEB consists of 15,000 Marines and sailors, and their aviation and ground combat equipment, including artillery and mortars. Currently, training of this scope must rely on classroom instruction and simulation which cannot provide realistic and practical experience for command, control, and maneuver. This absence of a MEB-level training range limits Marine Corps readiness by leaving the USMC without a venue for conducting fully integrated, live fire MEB training.

Since 2000, the Department of the Navy has intensively studied the Marines' warfighting requirements. In November 2000, the Marine Corps published Marine Corps Strategy 21, which identified the MEB as the primary contingency response force of the Marine Corps. An independent study by CNA's Center for Naval Analyses in 2004 concluded that MEB-level realistic large-scale air, ground training is essential for the Marine Corps to prepare units to respond to large-scale contingencies, and that this training can only be conducted at an expanded Twentynine Palms. In 2008, the Office of the Secretary of Defense, Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics, concurred. In February 2013, after nine years of study and analysis, the Marine Corps determined the only viable cost effective alternative was to expand the Twentynine Palms training area into the Johnson Valley OHV Area.

The Department of the Navy's Environmental Impact Statement evaluated the economic impacts of the proposed expansion on communities and businesses. The proposed base expansion would provide net benefits to the local economy, including 110 new jobs, $4 million in additional salaries, and $7.5 million in additional regional sales. This would be in addition to the existing contributions by Twentynine Palms to the local economy, including a 2012 workforce payroll of approximately $600 million (most of which is spent in the local area by personnel stationed and employed on the base), $1.8 million from the U.S. Department of Education to San Bernardino County schools, and base contracts valued at $28 million awarded to local vendors. The increase in jobs and expenditures is expected to offset a projected loss from the recreational and film industries of $1.5 million in sales and $216,000 in taxes. (The $1.5 million in sales represents approximately .01% of the $1.1 billion in sales the Retail Trade and Accommodation/Food Services sectors of Yucca Valley, Apple Valley and Victorville generate annually).

The Department of the Navy places a high value on maintaining positive relationships in the communities in which they are based and Johnson Valley is no exception. The development of this proposal has been carried out in consideration of extensive public input with the goal of balancing the needs of Marine Corps' training requirements with existing recreational activities.
 

Rokitman

UTVUnderground La Familia
Mar 11, 2013
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Nipomo, CA
At least it's not the enviro-Nazis closing it all. I don't mind sharing with our outstanding military when it comes to helping train our troops to protect us. We would not even have recreation without them!
 

Oc1

Member
Apr 21, 2011
167
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At least it's not the enviro-Nazis closing it all. I don't mind sharing with our outstanding military when it comes to helping train our troops to protect us. We would not even have recreation without them!
I respect our military as well but this is just plain wrong. Once they do live fire exercise's the area won't be opened up to the public again. There is no reason that they have to have that much room. That's like saying to race Vegas to Reno you have to have a 500 mile training track.
 

GOVACHO

Active Member
Nov 8, 2011
1,025
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38
Riverssippi
That is right.. Once they use LIVE AMMO on any land you will not be allowed to go on that land again.... Hell would you be willing to take the chance of riding over a live round ?
 

dkiewicz

Space Cadet - UTVUnderground's La Familia
Nov 28, 2009
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Wouldn't you think with all these f'ing wars/actions going on they're getting enough OJT? This is a bunch of spoiled generals that are dead set against losing to a bunch of sissy m'fn offroaders. Problem is they've underestimated us, and we will win, period.

There is also the cost of maintenance and so forth that hasn't been allocated yet. There sure seems to be all sorts of money whenever they try screwing the public, but when we ask for help they are all of the sudden broke and can't afford to fund BLM, USFS etc...

Bullshit, all of it. I'm tired of being bullied.
 

TREE68

too tall for the rzr
Aug 15, 2011
760
14
18
so cal
That is right.. Once they use LIVE AMMO on any land you will not be allowed to go on that land again.... Hell would you be willing to take the chance of riding over a live round ?
actually i need some of those live rounds since i cant find the glass sobe bottles anymore. :eek: and black power is hard to find right now. our camp has been boring latley. :cool: see you in the heights at KOH.
 

calstyl2

Hammer Rescue Pilot
Dec 22, 2011
178
2
18
Cherry Valley, CA
At least it's not the enviro-Nazis closing it all. I don't mind sharing with our outstanding military when it comes to helping train our troops to protect us. We would not even have recreation without them!
I disagree, The Marines are not, by their own admission a armored group doing large group tactics, they are getting back to being a amphibious door knocker and special tactics. That being said, if you have spent any time out here in the Stumps, you would know that there is plenty of land for them to screw up. A M-1A1 does a lot more damage than a 1500lb UTV or Trophy Truck.
 

Rokitman

UTVUnderground La Familia
Mar 11, 2013
909
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Nipomo, CA
I disagree, The Marines are not, by their own admission a armored group doing large group tactics, they are getting back to being a amphibious door knocker and special tactics. That being said, if you have spent any time out here in the Stumps, you would know that there is plenty of land for them to screw up. A M-1A1 does a lot more damage than a 1500lb UTV or Trophy Truck.
Are you a Marine?

I guess defending our military is a sour note among off road people. Look folks, I hate losing play area just as much as you. God knows I've seen my local Pismo Dunes riding area reduced 95% by extremist enviros, and kiss ass bureaucrats. The motocross track I used to race at in the Santa Maria River is now a protected wetland that is dry 99% of the time. Yes, our play areas are disappearing at an alarming rate, but considering that the military is trying to work with all parties involved and trying to find a happy medium, shows me how much integrity they have and we need to work with them.

Just remember, if the military wanted "all" of the Johnson Valley, they could take it and then everyone is screwed
 

Oc1

Member
Apr 21, 2011
167
5
18
Are you a Marine?

I guess defending our military is a sour note among off road people.
Just remember, if the military wanted "all" of the Johnson Valley, they could take it and then everyone is screwed
I think this statement is probably the least factually comment I've heard in a long time. In my experience I've met more vets and pro military people in the off road community than in any other group I've seen. The off road community has done countless things to support vets, military family's, and other things like the wounded warrior program.
This has nothing to do with supporting our military and everything to do with big government doing whatever they like. They haven't done anything to compromise, they are only trying to uphold a public image. All of the reasons for this land grab are based on WANT way more than need. There is NO REASON you have to run 3 battalions all at once just to practice. As you mentioned we are constantly losing areas to off road. I for one don't want to be constrained to only off roading on private land. If I truly felt that our nation was in danger because our troops couldn't train properly than I would support this whole heartedly. The reality is however quite different.
 

dkiewicz

Space Cadet - UTVUnderground's La Familia
Nov 28, 2009
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Take a look at Senator Feinstien's and her husbands land holdings, then come back and we'll talk.
http://www.utvunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5485

Check out the threads here for save the Hammers. I think you'll get what we're talking about. There's no use in debating it again in here.

As far as taking what they want, this is not true. It has to be approved by congress, and our congressman Mr. Cook (ex Marine Col.) is also in disagreement with the land grab.


Dan ...
 

Bagman

New Member
Jan 4, 2011
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Norco, CA
It's a shame because they have about all the land they want out in the Fort Irwin area being used for the same thing, desert warfare training. Wonder why the Marines couldn't just train there twice a year??? Yes it's a different branch of the service but they can't share and we the public must???

I doubt they'll live fire in the shared area. 60% of the land they need is for a buffer zone. Just a pisser the government has to take land away from the citizens that are using it. So many other places where the land isn't being used by anyone.
 

UtvMilitant

New Member
Sep 10, 2013
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Ahaha id on't think you said anything wrong. EVeryone seems to think they're right/never listen to other ideas.

shit happens!
 

dkiewicz

Space Cadet - UTVUnderground's La Familia
Nov 28, 2009
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Ahaha id on't think you said anything wrong. EVeryone seems to think they're right/never listen to other ideas.

shit happens!
He didn't say anything wrong. My point was not that I'm right, or anyone else for that matter. If you would spend the time to research the links here and elsewhere, this isn't a trivial subject. It has been hashed over numerous times and it has more skeletons than a mass grave in Bosnia.

This is a touchy subject because if you realize that 2/3 of this area are no longer for our use, what are we being given back in return, nothing. This means more folks crowded into smaller areas and a very violent and deadly situation is generated. These off road vehicles need a lot of space. If you've been doing this for awhile I'm sure you know someone who has been seriously hurt or killed. Putting thousands of people closer together is not conducive to a safe riding experience.

The other piece of this is the greedy bastards that are in the senate and congress that have thousands if not millions of acres bordering these areas and tend to make a nice personal profit from all of the solar etc... opportunities that are arising from industry. This isn't just about the military, it's much, much more.

If you don't get it, it's cool. I never said anyone was wrong. We are all entitled to our opinions, but we don't have to agree on them either.

Speak on and please take the time to read what has already transpired, I think you'll see a little different picture painted.

BTW, I am also a vet. I DO support our troops. This is a nonsensical land grab that has very little merit, but in the eyes of a select few individuals that really don't care what anyone else thinks.

Peace out....
 

Bagman

New Member
Jan 4, 2011
184
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Norco, CA
If you look on Google Earth, there is very little in the way of civilization for 80 miles to the east of 29 Palms, out to Hwy 95. 40 miles to the North is the 40 fwy but they may already claim that.

But no, they have to claim rights to one of the few areas that we the citizens and owners of the land (cough cough) are allowed to use for off-roading.

As Dan stated there is probably much more to this than just the military takeover. Back door deals and land grabs.

Next will be wind farms in the dual use area since it's just a buffer zone anyway. The military will say it got contaminated or some other bullshit reason.

Much as the same as they're showing during this shutdown, the government seems to go out of their way to punish it's citizens, shutting down departments or attractions in a punitive manner and keeping open or paying the people that matter to the government's way of life.

We can only hope there will be a massive anti-incumbent sediment come the next election. Maybe things will then change. But I wouldn't count on it. By the time they get to Washington, these people are "Professional" politicians and have perfected the art of graft and corruption.

Bitter??? Oh, a tad.
 

Rokitman

UTVUnderground La Familia
Mar 11, 2013
909
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Nipomo, CA
I guess I'm kind of a throw back to the 70s when I was in the Army. The military got very little support for anything they did at that time so I tend to defend them until such a time when it is not warranted. After reading previous posts it made me realize I was unaware of some of the land scams that were going on concerning the conflict of interest involving our illustrious politicians. It looks like the military again is getting screwed by the politicians, then have little recourse than to screw the public.
Then today I realize even more what a sham our officals are when I find out my small local riding area (Rock Front) is closed because of the gov shutdown. What a crock!
 

dkiewicz

Space Cadet - UTVUnderground's La Familia
Nov 28, 2009
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Hesperia Ca
I guess I'm kind of a throw back to the 70s when I was in the Army. The military got very little support for anything they did at that time so I tend to defend them until such a time when it is not warranted. After reading previous posts it made me realize I was unaware of some of the land scams that were going on concerning the conflict of interest involving our illustrious politicians. It looks like the military again is getting screwed by the politicians, then have little recourse than to screw the public.
Then today I realize even more what a sham our officals are when I find out my small local riding area (Rock Front) is closed because of the gov shutdown. What a crock!
Yup.... And we only have ourselves to blame because we elected the a$$holes! Hopefully we can change it soon.
 

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