All UTV's Boxed vs Tubing A-arms

badassmav

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2013
1,379
182
63
60
Jamul
Well, here we are again. I've got another perfect opportunity to share with you all, the results of good sound design.
The attatched images are of our drivers side, lower A-arm and adjoining hardware. On the first lap of the Mint 400 this year, we had a ridiculously hard impact on the drivers front wheel that folded the wheel around the spindle. After returning home, and tearing down the car, I noticed that the lower A-arm on that side was buckled! The impact not only folded the rim and buckled the control arm, it also bent the 1/2" diameter, 180,000 psi tensile strength bolt that attatches the upper arm to the spindle, via a 7/8" uni ball. Notice the wear ring on the shank of the bolt about 1/4" below the beginning of the thread. By design, that is where the shear load is applied to the bolt. NEVER allow the threaded portion of a stressed bolt to fall within the stressed area (i.e. between two tabs for example). If this bolt had less shank, that would have been the case, and the bolt surely would have sheared during this impact. Also notice the nice smooth fillet radius that blends the threaded section of the bolt to the shanked portion. This is an American made, aircraft quality bolt (Bowman, Bowmalloy series) that we used. It too, shares in the success of the joint not failing as a result of the "mother of all impacts" so far to our Monster Mav.
Hardware technology, and the application of it, is crucial in motorsports, especially in desert racing. We again had what should have been a side lining impact to the Monster Mav while racing for the win, and again, the car took the abuse without the need to stop and repair the impacted area, resulting in a second podium in as many races.
The A-arm, by design, has NO internal gusseting of ribbing, with the exception of an internal brace to support the plate where the coil over mounts to, and a basic mild steel, thin-walled tubing (1" x .065"wall) sub structue. Although the arm is a fully welded box, it still can flex under load because of the absence of interior ribbing. If the arm didn't flex or buckle, the impact to the hardware and spindle might have been catastrophic. This is also the same arm that I posted last month from the SF 250 that required a re-sectioning of the end where the welded bung accepts the rod end for the inner pivot point. These arms have over 2,000 miles of abuse on them, and have just about reached what I consider to be the end of their service life.
Notice how the buckled rim hit the steering arm of the spindle hard. So hard, that the tire locked up as a result. Again, a lighter spindle, without the proper fabricating disciplines would surely not have had the chances of surviving the impacts this one did. I used the stock spindles because they offered a strong, practical foundation to build from. Notice the stock casted steering arm on the bottom of the spindle. I used a long, high grade bolt to tie in the new steering arm location to the strength of the original one. That bolt was our savior, because the gusseting alone, without the clamping force of the additional bolt, would not have been adequate to take the load of the rim ramming into the steering arm. There was actually about a 1/8" thick layer of aluminum "swedged" onto the head of the bolt, and the 4130 tab that houses it. I had to literally chisel off the aluminum from the steel!
The lesson shared here is this: Weight is not a penalty in a class as limited to engine mods as ours is IF it is used wisely, and sparingly. Twice, we should have been side lined. Instead, our season is off to a 1-2 finish, and the Monster Mav is now contending with the top teams.
I don't know how I could build an arm from only tubing that would stand up to as much punishment, and for as long as these have.
I must admit that it feels good after a disappointing season last year, and this is as much as a "boast post" as it is an educational one. But still, there are many teams who can benefit from what I am exposing here. It would be a much more interesting race if more than 3 or 4 teams were the only ones contending for the win, and it is my hope that other teams can apply what we are learning to their advantage. We would love to be nerfed, if it is our class that is doing the pushing. Marc races for the competitive side of it, and a win is much sweeter when challenged for it.
So, ask away, or discredit away! Results are results!
 
Last edited:

badassmav

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2013
1,379
182
63
60
Jamul
This guy has great posts. Pull up a seat and pay attention. :cool:
Thanks, MV. I make as many friends as I do foe's with my postings . I speak my mind, and share what others keep as secrets. I'll say this again, "I own nothing. It's all been done before". Kinda like a cook, who adds a bit more salt than the other guy. Same ingredients............different results:)!
 

Wyoming

Uncle Si in training
Sep 8, 2012
12
0
1
Cody, WY
As an owner of a Mav and a part time racer, I have learned alot from your posts. I appreciate the info, makes us all better.
 

badassmav

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2013
1,379
182
63
60
Jamul
I am beginning to fab my new a-arms (the front, load-carrying, lower arms) to replace the damaged ones off of the Monster Mav, and as usual, I'm going to share with you all the intimate details of what I am doing here. From designing and building a welding jig, all the way to installing the arms on the car and performing a 4 wheel alignment, it is my intention to be 100% forthcoming, and I will do my best to answer all inquiries that time will allow (the next race is just 3 short weeks away). I will offer images showing exactly how the arm is built, and explain the reasoning behind my design choices. I am 100% self taught, so if any engineers want to chime in and offer their opinions, or corrections for that matter, I'm all ears. If you just want to be an A$$ like me, and challenge me, save it for the race course!
First off, I need to make a welding jig/plate so I can accurately weld the arms, but more importantly, the jig will assure repeatability, for I am in the process of "massaging" the arms so I can offer a comprehensive kit in the future. So, I went to my local scrapyard, and the plate I chose to use is 1/4" thick diamond plate (diamond because it was the flattest plate they had) about 24" x 30". Once completed, the jig plate will have provisions to position the pieces for welding all 8 of the a-arms from our car. I picked it up 2nd hand from my local scrap yard for 20 bucks. I could have paid 50 bucks to have one sheared from the metal supplier, but my experience in receiving sheared FLAT plates, in thicker cross sections, has been more bad than good. To support the plate, I made a sub-frame from 2"x 2" x 1/8" thick steel tubing that I had laying around the shop. I welded the tubing frame first, then attatched it to the bottom of the diamond plate by running 3/8" long fillet welds every 8" or so. Sorry there's no image here, but during the welding process, the plate was securely clamped down to my flat welding bench using sturdy c-clamps and reach over clamps .
First lesson here: Notice that the stitch welds that hold the plate onto the tubing frame are placed on the inside of the frame. If I were to weld it on the outside of the frame instead, the perimeter of said plate would have warped down, rendering it useless.

You will notice that all of the positioning fixtures are drilled and tapped into the jig plate, as opposed to being welded in place. This assures that the jig plate remains flat AND diverse!
I'll add more to this thread every couple of days until the job is complete (7-10 days). Sorry for the "grainy" images. I'm a fabricator, not a photographer:D!
 
Last edited:

badassmav

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2013
1,379
182
63
60
Jamul
I'm beginning to piece together the inner sub-frame. The material is 1" diameter 1010 mild steel/seamed tubing (the cheap, but malleable stuff!) I made standoffs out of 1/8" thick aluminum extrusions that screw into the jig plate (remember, no welding to the plate!) that will position the tubing for welding. To make the opposite arm, I simply re-locate the 4 standoffs, and the goose neck that positions the outer uniball tabs (the black piece on the left edge of the jig plate). If you remember my post after the SF 250, this inner tubing frame is what held the arm together when the arm took a big hit from a rock, or something equally as stubborn. As a result of that impact, the chro-moly outer skin failed, as did the weld that joined them to the threaded bungs that the rod ends (inner pivots) screw into. I am currently making a computer model of the arm so I can have the sheet metal skins cut out on a CNC plasma cutter. I 'm not sure if I can export that file in a line drawing, so I can share it with you all. If I can, I will.
 
Last edited:

the stripping shop

RACER - UTVUnderground Approved
Jan 29, 2009
1,101
137
63
peoria,Az
www.strippingshop.com
1936 rzr vinagro racing. the year before that 1937 2 seat 900 rzr. and 2 years before that 1937 2 seat rzr 800. this year no car taking year off and helping other teams. i help the 1566 team rockhill racing. and help out the lone star guys. Want to build car for next year to compete with all the teams. Just trying to iron out the details.
 

badassmav

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2013
1,379
182
63
60
Jamul
Look, the a arm aliens from outer space have revealed themselves! Man, I really need to invest in a camera. So, I should get my pieces back today for my 2nd generation front a-arms. Based on the wear, damage, and maintenance on the original arms, I've made some structural and aesthetic changes, albeit minor ones. The most noteable would be the center cut out. I removed the sheeting in the area where the old arm buckled, and traded it for vertical ribbing and open air (and a pound or two less, I suppose). What the arm loses in torsional rigidity, it will gain in lateral stiffness, due to the addition of the perimeter ribbing that welds between the upper plate of the arm and the lower plate of the arm. I also replaced an underlying 3/16" plate gusset that was welded to the tubing sub-frame, and was rosette welded to the upper plate directly under the coil over shock mounting tabs, with a "pass-thru" vertical stiffener that welds to both the top and bottom arm plates via a slotted plug weld. Lastly, I designed the upper and lower main plates to have a bend where the angular transition lies directly under the shock mounts. I was always worried about the integrity of that area due to the fact that it was achieved through 100% welding, and knew if the arm failed, that would be the place (although, I will need to "Mac Gyver" a way to roll-bend 9" of 1/8" thick 4130 plate today with out a brake, if I am to keep on schedule). Since Marc is currently on tour, you all get the first look at these latest developments. The arms should be welded and ready to install by Monday. It's crunch time, people:eek:!
 
Last edited:

AReed

Member
Oct 2, 2012
234
2
18
You should form dies by creating layers of laser cut pieces and then skinning them with a thin sheet metal so it doesn't scare the metal. You can then easily form it in a shop press.
 

badassmav

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2013
1,379
182
63
60
Jamul
You should form dies by creating layers of laser cut pieces and then skinning them with a thin sheet metal so it doesn't scare the metal. You can then easily form it in a shop press.
I get it. I'm over-complicated. Funny dude!
 
Last edited:

badassmav

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2013
1,379
182
63
60
Jamul
Well there ya go
I must admit, the verbage in my "educational" posts can be a bit ostentatious at times, but always concise none the less. You see, I have a habit, be it good or bad, of divuldging excessive information. It could be because I have an obsessive/compulsive personality, or perhaps I just don't want to be mis-understood.
So, do you always make irreverent comments towards those who enjoy helping others, or are you just being a facetious schmuck towards me? I ask, because you sure seem to have a lot to say for a fellow who's only authored 3 posts here in the Underground (that was a rhetorical question, by the way):rolleyes:!
 

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
17,292
Messages
179,387
Members
12,145
Latest member
felipebenjamin000