Incident on 3N93 Holcomb Creek on Saturday 7-14-12
- Thread starter Doug Guimond
- Start date
got a questioned after reading through all this. i have only been there once but seeing as most all the trails are OHV trails how can there be a street legal only trail in the middle of it? i had to deal with tho similar issue down at superstion were we ended up on a street legal trail that was only make such from the entrance from the highway and no were else. i agree with both sides on the issues here but it sounds like ranger danger and BLM still haven't figured out how to make a trail properly.
I can't completely answer your question because I don't work for the forest service, but I can tell you that road and trail system in the forest is dynamic and it's changing more and more. Part of the issue with the road system is the fact that SBNF is one of the most heavily used forests in the country, and due to it's proximity to a huge metropolitan area many of the users of the forest don't really have a lot of respect for it. A perfect example is when it snows. Go up the hill and drive by Snow Summit in the afternoon and look at all the trash and broken snow sleds and junk that people leave there for someone else to pick up. That same carelessness bleeds over to the back country roads because anyone in a Prius can get back to the areas where the trails are. I have had to go remove all kinds of vehicles from areas that they are not capable of getting into/out of, but the owner decided what the Hell. No respect. Period. The FS has to keep certain roads open and designated as street legal for many reason; mainly for access for fire and emergency crews, and I believe it also has to do with funding. But no matter why the roads are the way they are now doesn't mean we can't get more of them designated more appropriately for our use. It takes time, effort and a LOT of patience. But we have proved already more than once that it works if you keep at it.
Dino, It would be understandable that if a jeep was caught on a 50" trail there would be stuff said, as the jeep would most likely be doing damage to a "narrow" trail. Just the same as an atv on a single track.
The forest service ignored the utv market in the last couple of years and listed a ton of trails as 50" only. These are trails that are plenty wide enough to be used by all with no limitations.
I was a member of the Bakersfield Trailblazers years ago, spent a lot of time hauling rock for erosion, cutting trees, hand digging water bars and listening to very uneducated people in the F.S.
I'm sorry, but I am one that does not believe in "street legal" only "trails". There is no reason for it, none at all.
Apparently you know it all and got it all figured out, so come to the meetings and get the forest service straightened out. I'm sure they will bow down to your extensive knowledge and sweet disposition and do whatever you say.
Bill here is the info and if any one else needs it also.
come to the next Adopt-A-Trail meeting at the Sizzler in Corona this Wednesday at 6PM.
1461 Rimpau Ave, Corona, CA 92879 » Map
(951) 272-8255
Kurt Kauffman
SBNF AAT volunteer
I would have to say that was well said. God bless freedom!First of all in Montana there is no requirement for front plates, next thanks for the attack, it is what I am talking about it the first place! There are two types of people in this country, those who think all comes from the government including permissions and those of us that believe freedom and responsibility come from our creator and it is not responsible to follow blindly nonsensical rules that don't follow the CVC. I am the guy in front and will take the arrows and that's okay, but don't assume I "Don't get it" when I get it way beyond the sheep attitude that has us trapped on a few gifted and bagged trails and areas! I could have cared less if the shoe was on the other foot, but as stated here a smile, and explanation goes a lot further. The signage if official is amateurish at best and as far as my commitment there is no question, FREEDOM WORKS! You see not one person can answer the original question: How is it an un-maintained trail "Street Legal"? I am not 5 and "Because it is" is not an answer! BTW I don't boil my Dust Rag either and I don't shoot rabbits from the back of Street Cars! What I do get is there are a lot of people who never question authority (Hippocrates) unless it feeds there need to control others. Always question authority my Friends!
It’s truly amazing how the ignorance of some can be so obvious. For starters, this forum welcomes discussion, but for someone to come an outright attack LAW ABIDING, US Citizens in the manner which insinuated “An incident occurred on 7-14-12 on 3N93 Holcomb Creek in the San Bernardino National Forest between members of this forum and some Adopt-A-Trail volunteer,†(DID NOT HAPPEN).
Papa Bear and every true member of this forum are professional members who are respectful and responsible off roaders and recreational riders. I would have been more than supportive to volunteer and support your group; however I feel an apology to all 10 SXS/UTV riders and their families is in order. I for one will ride/drive my UTV on any legal and approved riding trail I see fit and agree with Slackers statement.
Thanks Jim for giving some creditability to this guy, as I do respect your opinion.
As most you are aware, I don’t flaunt myself around as anything other than myself. I’m glad I didn’t hear some of the words stated in the beginning reply’s.
I’m not going to go on and on, but if something needs to be done to keep these roads open, it should be communicated as such to educate members here that want to know and not point to finger and insinuated something happen such as an “incident,†which infers a serious event occurred. This was not the case and now if your goal was to unite or unify for a common goal, I think it backfired.
Rich thanks for the link, as it was helpful to learn more about the trails. Given this was my first time on that trail, I for one gained valuable insight of what jeep owners experience and why they enjoy the various rock trails. Given that I’m a open minded person, I will not let the view of a few cast upon the rest.
Le
Papa Bear and every true member of this forum are professional members who are respectful and responsible off roaders and recreational riders. I would have been more than supportive to volunteer and support your group; however I feel an apology to all 10 SXS/UTV riders and their families is in order. I for one will ride/drive my UTV on any legal and approved riding trail I see fit and agree with Slackers statement.
Thanks Jim for giving some creditability to this guy, as I do respect your opinion.
As most you are aware, I don’t flaunt myself around as anything other than myself. I’m glad I didn’t hear some of the words stated in the beginning reply’s.
I’m not going to go on and on, but if something needs to be done to keep these roads open, it should be communicated as such to educate members here that want to know and not point to finger and insinuated something happen such as an “incident,†which infers a serious event occurred. This was not the case and now if your goal was to unite or unify for a common goal, I think it backfired.
Rich thanks for the link, as it was helpful to learn more about the trails. Given this was my first time on that trail, I for one gained valuable insight of what jeep owners experience and why they enjoy the various rock trails. Given that I’m a open minded person, I will not let the view of a few cast upon the rest.
Le
WE ARE OUT OF STATE NOW, BUT WHEN WE GET HOME WE WOULD LIKE TO BE PART OF ADOPT A TRAIL. UTVS ARE STREET LEGAL IN BAJA MISSOURI WITH WINDSHIELDS, BRAKE LIGHTS, MIRRORS & TURN SIGNALS. ALL I NEED ARE TURN SIGNALS & A WINDSHIELD. I HAVE AN ADDRESS HERE.
This was turning into a good thread here..
Papa Bear, lets lay back a bit on these guys. Sounds like it was a rough first meeting but I think we could really use a group like this on our side, to help us open more trails by showing what responsible off-roaders our forum represents. These guys are popping back at you with the personal jabs just as you continue to pop off at them. Your first few posts really provoked a verbal war, right or wrong I'm just saying. I see your frustration, and anyone that knows you knows that you will speak your mind and defend what you feel is right. I respect that a TON! However, what happened happened and as an outsider looking in here I can see where these guys have said, if you don't like the way it is on this trail then attend our meetings where people who make decisions are at and help them and ourselves plead our case. Seems pretty black and white to me. My problem is I need 3 of me so I can attend these types of meetings. I rely on members like those in La Familia to represent our site and our community, but I will say I am all for helping if I can!
Does it just take money to adopt a trail, or can we adopt a trail by doing work on it???
Papa Bear, lets lay back a bit on these guys. Sounds like it was a rough first meeting but I think we could really use a group like this on our side, to help us open more trails by showing what responsible off-roaders our forum represents. These guys are popping back at you with the personal jabs just as you continue to pop off at them. Your first few posts really provoked a verbal war, right or wrong I'm just saying. I see your frustration, and anyone that knows you knows that you will speak your mind and defend what you feel is right. I respect that a TON! However, what happened happened and as an outsider looking in here I can see where these guys have said, if you don't like the way it is on this trail then attend our meetings where people who make decisions are at and help them and ourselves plead our case. Seems pretty black and white to me. My problem is I need 3 of me so I can attend these types of meetings. I rely on members like those in La Familia to represent our site and our community, but I will say I am all for helping if I can!
Does it just take money to adopt a trail, or can we adopt a trail by doing work on it???
BTW, I want to say WELCOME TO THE SITE to all the new members who have joined us here! Sounds like an aggressive (in a good way) off-road bunch and we need more soldiers like you guys fighting our fight as off-roaders!
Joey, I think some free UTVUG hats are in order for La Familia for driving the Jeeper guys into new membership on your site. Hell, PB should get a T-Shirt!!
I like the idea of AAT, so let's do it!!
Not sure if you were there that day but that is not quite what happened. We tried to educate. The first one out of the trail was approached and educated about the trail. He flew off the handle and began the attacks.
We have since come back to try and educate again and help you all fight for your right to offroad just like we do every day.
To be honest IMO the gentlemen in the first vehicle needs to apologize but we all know that won't happen.
Additionally no one has disagreed with this or made an accusation on the contrary: "every true member of this forum are professional members who are respectful and responsible off roaders and recreational riders" You need to get that chip of your shoulder. We are not the enemy.
I look forward to seeing those at the meeting tonight and I can assure you you have our support. Greg is a great asset to us and he will supprot you as well.
I was in a different group that day, but why would one of your guys try to "educate" a group of UTV guys enjoying the trails? I've been told the FS sign did not have a pic of "UTV" with red cross through it??? So, no education required. Right??? I apologize if I'm wrong. It doesn't take much to put another person in a defensive mode if they feel they are unnecesarrily being "schooled". Especially a highly seasoned and professional group of UTV owners, out enjoying the trails with their families. Now, if we were on a bunch of quads and dirtbikes throwing beer cans all over the trail system in front of you, I can understand. But I think AAT went to your heads and having created an overbearing sense of entitlement regarding this specific trail. I understand it's your " baby" cause of all the work, but you chose the wrong people and time to try and educate. It's OK, we all make mistakes. I am personally willing to put in my time on a trail. But, I've learned from this thread, that I need to keep a check on my own tolerance of other offroaders.
Again, no one said you all are not responsible offroaders and I'm not quite sure why that continually is brought up. Sounds pretty defensive if you ask me.
All we were trying to say was that the trail is listed as "Street Legal Only". That's it. Nothing else. Again we don't make the rules or the laws so no need to attack me on the reasoning.
Nothing has gone to my head. We don't do what we do for ourselves. We do it so others and our future families can enjoy the trail and try to prevent it from being closed. If we didn't I can assure you it would not be open today. Please understand that is not pompous or arrogant it's fact.
This will not help your cause.
We all hope that your involvement will help your right to offroad. I honestly hope that some day we can put a icon of a UTV on the signs of our trail. It a great trail that we worked hard to open and you would enjoy it.
All we were trying to say was that the trail is listed as "Street Legal Only". That's it. Nothing else. Again we don't make the rules or the laws so no need to attack me on the reasoning.
Nothing has gone to my head. We don't do what we do for ourselves. We do it so others and our future families can enjoy the trail and try to prevent it from being closed. If we didn't I can assure you it would not be open today. Please understand that is not pompous or arrogant it's fact.
This will not help your cause.
I'm glad to see some will be attending the meeting tonight. Maybe after the meeting your peeps can come back and explain it to everyone. I understand that trying to explain things to individuals that are already on the defense is difficult.
We all hope that your involvement will help your right to offroad. I honestly hope that some day we can put a icon of a UTV on the signs of our trail. It a great trail that we worked hard to open and you would enjoy it.
Joey,
As I said a few posts back, I tried to get this rolling last year and was unable to do so. I'm glad that we can move forward because I think we are screwed if we don't. It isn't the way I think it should be, but that's life.
I also pm'd you then trying to get support from this site. You hold a ton of credibility in this community and I also spoke with Gregg last year about UTVUnderground and La Familia.
Do we have your permission to use your likeness and this site? Are we authorized to speak on behalf of UTVUnderground?
I know these are silly questions, but I want to make sure we have your blessing to do so. I think we can calmly and professionally represent our cause. We do have some very strongly opinionated folks here, present company included, but I think we are so because of our passion.
I was actively involved in the Save JV campaign, still am, so this isn't the first for me either.
I for one cannot make tonights meeting, I have to babysit a spacecraft, but these meetings are monthly, and let's see how next month lines up.
I would like to ask that anyone going tonight report back to the group on the discussion with a summary of what took place.
You all have my permission to sign me up, and I'll do what I can when able. Please PM me for my email address if needed.
This is in my backyard, so I have ready access to this from my house, literally.
I would also think that a subject of this importance warrants it's own forum to post and discuss in.
What say ye?
Dan...
Your club does not have your priorities in the right spot. You say you want to help get trails open and improve access. thats BS. You opened a trail in the middle of the forest and supported it as a "street legal" trail only!! Don't blame the FS, blame yourselves. You clearly supported this, and this obviously limits access to a lot of us. You should be ashamed of yourselves for the lies and depceptions. Your actions say complete opposite of your so called position. You should have championed that trail for all to use. Why even bother, unless you really just wanted to AAT something for yourselves and your buddies. Change your attitude and get your minds right. You expect us to work along side of you, but you're clearly only in it for yourselves. How dare you support such exclusionary behavior. Really?