I understand Dougs concern as it is valid.
Something to consider as well ..... Maybe implement a lbs per cc rule
A common rule of thumb in other forms is 18lbs per 100 cc
LORRS-UTV's??
- Thread starter dnf736
- Start date
Something to consider as well ..... Maybe implement a lbs per cc rule
A common rule of thumb in other forms is 18lbs per 100 cc
I think this method has a lot of merit. We have been contemplating this same method amongst ourselves for a while now.
I think the key for this class would be where the weight break starts at.
DF, are UTV's going to need the USAC license before this round in AZ????
can we get it at the track????
time is running short and the cost to go racing is increasing dramatically.
can we get it at the track????
time is running short and the cost to go racing is increasing dramatically.
18lbs X 800cc=14400lbs? Do I need to move a decimal somewhere?
Im dumb, sum 1 sho me teh formyoula.
Rog, I believe USAC is RJ's series.
Im dumb, sum 1 sho me teh formyoula.
Rog, I believe USAC is RJ's series.
18lbs per 100cc = 18x8= 144lbs per 800cc motor
Our current rules figure out to be
175lbs per 100cc = 175x8= 1400lbs per 800cc motor
What is X? In this case X=8, what does 8 represent? The number of marbles rolling around in my head?
Oh, and DFR posted this up on RT.
Oh, and DFR posted this up on RT.
1400lbs / 8 (800 engine) = 175 / 8 = 21.875lbs pre 100cc
18 X 8 = 144 x 8 = 1152
So the new minium for an 800cc engine @ 18lbs is 1152lbs?
For a 686 is 874lbs?
Is that right?
18 X 8 = 144 x 8 = 1152
So the new minium for an 800cc engine @ 18lbs is 1152lbs?
For a 686 is 874lbs?
Is that right?
I disagree with 18lbs for 100cc's
not enough, the 250 karts and 450 karts are 80-90lbs apart. ie 45lbs per 100 cc's with driver in machine.
now that would make sense.
18lbs/100cc for 4-6-and 8 cyl buggies maybe.
686 at 1400 min ( like we have now) then up from there at 45lbs per 100 cc.
if the 1000s race this year then that should help the playing field and peeps do not have to spent mega $$ in new machines and equipment.
Also, I thought SxS had to have two seats, to "resemble a SxS"
not enough, the 250 karts and 450 karts are 80-90lbs apart. ie 45lbs per 100 cc's with driver in machine.
now that would make sense.
18lbs/100cc for 4-6-and 8 cyl buggies maybe.
686 at 1400 min ( like we have now) then up from there at 45lbs per 100 cc.
if the 1000s race this year then that should help the playing field and peeps do not have to spent mega $$ in new machines and equipment.
Also, I thought SxS had to have two seats, to "resemble a SxS"
800cc divided by 100cc = 8
18lbs per 100cc
Our class says max 800cc.
18lbs x 8 = 144lbs.
If our class followed these rules we could run a 7777cc motor in our 1400lb car.
I am sure Grant is talking about a 18lb per 100 cc weight penalty peeps, over the min of 1400 lbs
this is where I say that is not enough for UTV's.
the percentage of motor size increase is higher here, than larger buggy motors
this is where I say that is not enough for UTV's.
the percentage of motor size increase is higher here, than larger buggy motors
The reason I suggested the single/dual cylinder classes is because a single cylinder 800cc motor will never put out the power of a two-cylinder motor.800cc motor.....as it stands now, the v-twins are putting a hurting on the singles and that won't change with the weight per cc idea. I'm trying to think of a way to structure the classes in the future that won't give one OEM/motor distinct advantage over another...therefore keeping our UTV race pool as big as possible.....and making classes true driver's classes.....
Easier said than done however!!
Easier said than done however!!
I've had my eye on the new Dragon Fire Chassis for a while. I've talked to Todd a couple of times about the build.
For me, and anybody who's starting a build right now, (You guys are wanting to structure rules to attract new racers correct?)...we have to make sence of the power plants currently available. I don't see the point in building an 800cc car when the 950 Artic Cat is a superior motor to base my build off of, and it cost the same to boot. More power, No cost penalty.
I sold my RZR late last year after spending oddles of time dialing in the suspension. The motor package wasn't strong enough at the time. (Obviously RJ is doing just fine with his KROYER motor this year. At the time, KROYER couldn't give me a straight answer as to what he thought he could do with the Polaris package. He's worked it out in a years time to be a top finisher). After selling the RZR last year, I bought an '08 Kawi, in 2009, because of the potential the motor was showing. I then sold it a month or two later, with out doing a thing to it, because the artic cat is now showing potential. Frankly I think the Artic Cat motor package is hard to beat in stock form. I personally think the displacement game has platued and 1000cc will be about as far as it gets in the UTV world. The boxer Goldwing 1300cc Honda motor, or the 1000cc R1 would be cool as a factory Rhino, but I highly doubt that's going to happen. Honda has side stepped the big motor UTVs altogether.... There has to be a reason for it right?
So as far a motor packages go, we have to consider a rules change, and allowing motor swaps. The Rhino Motors are very close to becoming obsolete in race venues against the Kawi. The "Rhino" race chassis most of you guys have currently built, are far from obsolete, and can easily podium with a motor swap.
Frankly we all know LOORRS pulled the plug on the UTV class because they were "boring" to watch. We heard it alot at CORR, in the stands, and on the forums.
The UTV's HAVE TO BE FASTER if they're going to compete for attention and love from 1) average joe smoe fan, 2) the big race promoters, and 3) for any TV time. The combo of these 3 factors is what's going to get the Yamaha's and Kawasaki's, and Polaris' of the world to throw $ at race programs. We, as UTV guys, have to be more entertaining to watch in the eyes of the standard end user if UTVs are going to continue to be a viable race class in the big shows.
Larger displacement motor packages are here. Motor swaps make sence at this point in the game to bring the existing Race Rhinos up to par, and to allow the new UTV builds to run current power packages. Why handycap new builds if we know the UTV class as a whole, needs to faster to be more entertaining to watch?
-Sean
For me, and anybody who's starting a build right now, (You guys are wanting to structure rules to attract new racers correct?)...we have to make sence of the power plants currently available. I don't see the point in building an 800cc car when the 950 Artic Cat is a superior motor to base my build off of, and it cost the same to boot. More power, No cost penalty.
I sold my RZR late last year after spending oddles of time dialing in the suspension. The motor package wasn't strong enough at the time. (Obviously RJ is doing just fine with his KROYER motor this year. At the time, KROYER couldn't give me a straight answer as to what he thought he could do with the Polaris package. He's worked it out in a years time to be a top finisher). After selling the RZR last year, I bought an '08 Kawi, in 2009, because of the potential the motor was showing. I then sold it a month or two later, with out doing a thing to it, because the artic cat is now showing potential. Frankly I think the Artic Cat motor package is hard to beat in stock form. I personally think the displacement game has platued and 1000cc will be about as far as it gets in the UTV world. The boxer Goldwing 1300cc Honda motor, or the 1000cc R1 would be cool as a factory Rhino, but I highly doubt that's going to happen. Honda has side stepped the big motor UTVs altogether.... There has to be a reason for it right?
So as far a motor packages go, we have to consider a rules change, and allowing motor swaps. The Rhino Motors are very close to becoming obsolete in race venues against the Kawi. The "Rhino" race chassis most of you guys have currently built, are far from obsolete, and can easily podium with a motor swap.
Frankly we all know LOORRS pulled the plug on the UTV class because they were "boring" to watch. We heard it alot at CORR, in the stands, and on the forums.
The UTV's HAVE TO BE FASTER if they're going to compete for attention and love from 1) average joe smoe fan, 2) the big race promoters, and 3) for any TV time. The combo of these 3 factors is what's going to get the Yamaha's and Kawasaki's, and Polaris' of the world to throw $ at race programs. We, as UTV guys, have to be more entertaining to watch in the eyes of the standard end user if UTVs are going to continue to be a viable race class in the big shows.
Larger displacement motor packages are here. Motor swaps make sence at this point in the game to bring the existing Race Rhinos up to par, and to allow the new UTV builds to run current power packages. Why handycap new builds if we know the UTV class as a whole, needs to faster to be more entertaining to watch?
-Sean
Splitting the UTV's with another class isn't going to work if means running at separate times. There's not enough UTVs to keep the classes big and enjoyable to watch on the smaller tracks, much less the larger tracks.
As it sits, even the smaller SxS Series runs ALL Pro and Am together because of the lack of car count. Car count will continue to drop off as the economy worsen to a platue. We don't want to artificially split an already dwindling car count with 2 Pro class' do we?
As it sits, even the smaller SxS Series runs ALL Pro and Am together because of the lack of car count. Car count will continue to drop off as the economy worsen to a platue. We don't want to artificially split an already dwindling car count with 2 Pro class' do we?
All classes one gate from what I understand. I do agree with the motor swap. I don't car what motor you have in your car. You still have to drive it. The rhino's are far from over. My race rhino will still out run my Teryx down the stait away. It just don't handle as well being older build with less travel.
Thanks Bobby.
What better way to get Yamahas attention than put a Rhino on the Pro podium with a Kawi engine.
And I get why some want you to start over rather than retro fit but I dont think people are line up for race builds like they were two years ago.
What better way to get Yamahas attention than put a Rhino on the Pro podium with a Kawi engine.
And I get why some want you to start over rather than retro fit but I dont think people are line up for race builds like they were two years ago.
Engine+Technology
I think were in the dark over here in off-road land.
Yamaha has a whole belt drive engine line up for their snowmobiles that could be swapped into existing Race Rhino Chassis. The 150HP R1 power plants may be a bit much?... nahhhh who am I kidding...
I think were in the dark over here in off-road land.
Yamaha has a whole belt drive engine line up for their snowmobiles that could be swapped into existing Race Rhino Chassis. The 150HP R1 power plants may be a bit much?... nahhhh who am I kidding...