New Honda Talon to launch Nov 27th 2018!

Discussion in 'General UTV Discussion' started by Mad Media, Nov 26, 2018.

  1. Mad Media

    Mad Media Mad Media

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    New Honda Talon to launches tomorrow from the LA auto show. UTVUnderground will be bringing the unveil live from the LA auto show. Stay tuned!!
     
  2. It'sYourLegacy

    It'sYourLegacy Banned Por Vida

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    https://www.utvunderground.com/honda-unveils-two-new-6-speed-dct-multi-sport-utvs
    Thank you for a well written first look at arguably the most anticipated machine since the Big 3 game changers (Rhino; Rzr800 & 1000).
    I was beginning to believe that I might never live to see a car that didn't demand an exhaustive engineering research project beforehand nor a crippling investment afterwards This machine will obviously not be any more off road bulletproof than any other at 20K plus or minus. This is impossible despite claims to the contrary made through subconscious and overt marketing. We all want to believe the dream despite any 20K plus toy being a budget breaker for most. Honda's past success off road might just offer us all a chance at dependability if these specifically targeted cars are driven reasonably with only smaller adjustments needing to be made in the aftermarket. Previous Big 3 launches were far less well engineered if this piece is to be taken as gospel while not offering this hope. Loved the short piece with Jeremy McGuire in Marysville, OH on how the project came together. Hoping that he is interviewed in depth more often as this project progresses.

    Sold here or no other reason than a small fortune already wasted and faith in what I have just read backed up by non off road products which have just not let me down in comparison to others which have over many years. Your mileage may vary yet i'm excited to see if enthusiasts up here truly break this machine down in any meaningful and comparative way.

    This 4th groundbreaker will make everybody else better regardless.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  3. It'sYourLegacy

    It'sYourLegacy Banned Por Vida

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    Who will be the first to thrown down this new frame on the floor beside every other on the market in the same category?
    How about a cutaway or skeleton comparison of the drive system and other components?
     
  4. sand shark

    sand shark Well-Known Member

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    A nice entry into the non-turbo sport market. The trail version will be a competitor for sure. Wish they would have gone with at least 115hp. DCT set up is cool, but the non-belt set up has not proven to be the death of the belt drives yet.

    I love the faithful that pound Honda reliability down our throats. Anything is reliable if driven reasonably and maintained properly. Be interested to see what Joe public does to these once they are released next year. Don't understand why you would have a model reveal and not have it heading to the dealers within the next 30 days. Honda will miss out on sales on the West Coast by the time it hits dealers.
     
  5. It'sYourLegacy

    It'sYourLegacy Banned Por Vida

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    Bold statement encompassing everything in the UTV market today from Walmart knockoffs to 'whoever'.
    I'm expecting Honda to hand out several hundred dollar accessory gift certificates in year two or three on top of the industry standard (so far) of selectively issuing Visa cards in the first model year 'just because'.
    Hey, you've got to keep up with the competition with everything so equally reliable out there today...
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  6. Mad Media

    Mad Media Mad Media

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    The car close up looked good. I want to get in one a do few hundred miles and put it through some real testing. My brother Josh got to drive it and was impressed overall. Besides the transmission they have done some things differently that I am curious how well they will work.
     
  7. It'sYourLegacy

    It'sYourLegacy Banned Por Vida

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    As Honda strips market share by virtue of the drivetrain/paddle shift features alone they will need to differentiate themselves from the YZX in tutorials and hopefully split screen dueling videos featuring both machines banging gears through the same terrain.

    This intro reminds me of how bad that I wanted a Rincon back when my old friend ('99 Sportsman) was was still 'growing up' during its glory days. Yamaha then dominated..then Polaris..and now?...I may just want to bang gears again (a video with accurate audio would help).
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  8. It'sYourLegacy

    It'sYourLegacy Banned Por Vida

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    I'd like to know also if any UTV manufacturer has ever before offered a more in depth look through this many individual no-hols-barred interviews at the entire process of building their cars. There were some great questions asked here followed by fairly detailed/honest answers concerning how this all came together.
    Let's hope that the next interviews granted contain even more quality questions with the same cast as these sit downs really help us differentiate and understand where the sport is headed in terms of the top tier cars.
     
  9. It'sYourLegacy

    It'sYourLegacy Banned Por Vida

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    For those of us receiving $250 gift certificates, visa cards and multiple letters in the mail spanning years while spending way too much time at dealerships not to mention our garages (if we are blessed to both wrench AND have a place to wrench to save even dollar one)....I find it curious that the "every car produced today is reliable if you simply maintain them" mantra is suddenly becoming the how-dare-you-blasphemy-the-emperor-with-no-clothes insistence not only up here but coming soon to a speed shop showroom near you.

    If you're selling this new Talon or even a Yamaha...don't you have the following videos very simply displayed prominently on a big screen video 'loop' in your showroom....with no high pressure sales tactics needed?
    https://www.hunterworks.com/primary_basic_cleaning_video
    https://www.hunterworks.com/helix_change
    https://www.hunterworks.com/800_primary_disassembly
    16_and_newer_roller_install
    https://www.hunterworks.com/hd_primary_bearing_video
    https://www.hunterworks.com/hs_clutch_spider_install_video
    https://www.hunterworks.com/new_clutch_holder
    https://www.hunterworks.com/new_compressor_video
    https://www.hunterworks.com/rzr_1000_900_blower_install
    https://www.hunterworks.com/900_1000_parts_clutch_parts
    https://www.hunterworks.com/belt_guide_install_video
    https://www.hunterworks.com/new_sheave_coating_prep
    https://www.hunterworks.com/coated_secondary_rollers

    ...and don't you simply turn up the volume LOUDLY when Todd is struggling with or banging on anything above as your potential customer quickly asks: "what in the heck is THAT all about for heavens sakes?"...
    ...while you reply with a smile:
    "Tell me, would you like to see/hear yourself (instead) paddle shifting like a formula one racer through the desert and woods with nothing but occasional oil changes to ever worry about?"
    (Remote clicks in the background)
    "Here's what a no maintenance tranny both sounds and looks like from both the driver's view and a drone on a 6 foot split screen...."

    (Likely) 'Sold' with but one feature featured.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  10. sand shark

    sand shark Well-Known Member

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    Go buy the Honda Talon and let us know how it goes.




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  11. It'sYourLegacy

    It'sYourLegacy Banned Por Vida

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    ...I'm not sure that I have to given the above scenario (alone).
    Game changer (period).
     
  12. sand shark

    sand shark Well-Known Member

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    Game changer? Lol!




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  13. It'sYourLegacy

    It'sYourLegacy Banned Por Vida

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    Your laughing off the Talon would perhaps gain credibility if you ever (once) addressed the stark differences (facts) put forward to make any one poster's point. For me, being forced to view the videos listed above merely to (reliably) keep my car on the road not to mention perform the work needed myself afterwards at great cost not to mention precious free time is yes, a "game changer" versus what the Talon promises.
    When we witness little but "ahhhh, go buy it then" and "lols" or more importantly SILENCE as the sole responses to this groundbreaking machine ?
    Honda indeed just hit it out of the park..on the road..and there are not a whole lot holding season tickets very happy about it. ;)
     
  14. It'sYourLegacy

    It'sYourLegacy Banned Por Vida

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    ...I''ll make it easy.
    You're an 'x' dealer of cvt driven machines. Give me the sales pitch that you'll hit me with when I start playing all of the tranny centered videos above for you at our good natured backyard bbq...minus the ones that I've purposely left out explaining how to install the myriad of 'improved' clutching systems that apparently nobody 'needs' yet which they fork out hundreds if not thousands (lifetime upkeep incl.) more for.

    Sales people are the absolute worst when new machines hit the market.;)
     
  15. sand shark

    sand shark Well-Known Member

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    It’s not a game changer and it is not proven anything yet.

    Yamaha already had a paddle shift sport SXS. Honda has a DCT set up which allows it to be like an automatic or you can shift it.

    The suspension set up is similar to what is out there. The hp is the low end of the non-turbo sport segment. The interior is nothing to write home about. The cage is nothing different. No harnesses and no added safety.

    The no belt drive has not proven to be a selling point. YamahaYXZ sales will tell you that along with the sales numbers from Polaris and Can Am.

    After it has been out for a year and it has proven something, then maybe we can revisit the game changer.



    [​IMG]


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  16. It'sYourLegacy

    It'sYourLegacy Banned Por Vida

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  17. It'sYourLegacy

    It'sYourLegacy Banned Por Vida

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    Yamaha's 'must-shift' transmission is not equal to a "can (paddle) shift or not" fully automatic experience (period).
    This is the 800# gorilla in the room when these debates are (rarely) held.
    It is no surprise that the Pioneer very quietly took its place in the market. Any hype otherwise from the forums beyond a few of out there speculating/hoping that this NEW tranny would indeed be the Talon's powerhouse was non-existent. In fact, big changes in who even 'participated' in forums occurred just before the Talon's release (birds chirping presently again).

    Yes, the Talon suspension setup is similar to what is on the market presently. I happen to believe that Honda designed much more in to this car than that statement allows. Question: Was not this natural progression inevitable from many of us needing rebuilds or 5k+ shock upgrades not 5 years ago? So if I've got (now) what was costing me 5K to install (yesterday) and that's 25% of the entire machine's cost today...that's not a good thing?
    Honda is not trying to compete HP-wise in either the non-turbo or otherwise segment presently simply due to company culture and this machine (like the Pioneer before it) being the trailblazer that it is. Honda cuts new paths carefully with sharp tools. This sport has already witnessed what paths cut carelessly with blunt strategies creates...unhappy customers.
    The interior being "nothing to write home about"??? Won't even dignify that with a response. I trust those who have and what I've witnessed with my own eye/read for sub 20K. Brilliant and much more than sufficient for the price ('gee', a roof and killer seats with proper well made adjustments...who would've thunk it?).
    If anyone out there believes that they will receive a proper cage and harnesses for sub 20K they live in a recreational marihuana state and voted for it. This is exactly why most refuse to discuss safety including the manufacturers to date. If the nanny state or some law doesn't plop all-encompassing 'safety' in our laps like a kid's therapy pony? We don't need safety as that amount (necessarily) budgeted was not in the lie pulled on the wife as to what any car would actually cost. Until this quits happening to 9 out of 10 buyers? "Wishes" surrounding safety add-ons will stay just that in this sport: Somebody else's problem and looming tragedy as "that only happens to other people (honey)...".

    To say that (finally) ash canning our belt drives "has not proven to be a selling point" is ludicrous with Yamaha (finally) refining their system properly in 2019 and the Pioneer scaring everybody in the industry to death for years now. Further comparing 'sales' during that period is even more. Nobody wants to discuss the videos posted above as compared to what the Talon offers as they are fact. Good excuse to get away from the wife and kids (if you're into that) to do needed tranny maintenance...just plain bad for those of us who would rather do something else.

    It's a game changer before we've ever sat in one for more reasons than I have expressed here. The utter silence and lack of debate from those traditional discussing these topics (currently 'hiding' somewhere apparently) with fervor proves that the Talon is on a whole lot of wish lists this Christmas season.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  18. sand shark

    sand shark Well-Known Member

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  19. ///Airdam Clutches

    ///Airdam Clutches Active Member

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    yamaha released the YXZ in 2015...... were you around to see the multitudes, and i mean 75+% mortality rate on the clutches out of the first year machine, nobody could get 300 miles out of a clutch. its only taken them 4 years to figure it out??? and are you sure its figured out yet? blow a belt, 15-20 min change..... burn a clutch up, take it to the dealer and let them spend 12 hours to disassemble virtually the entire machine to fix it. durrrhhhhh.... no brainer on which one is the better way to go.

    the pioneer trans was revolutionary to some, many are awe-struck by it and its ability on paper. but i have not had one single person in person tell me they were as pleased with it after actually driving it. i would venture to say around 30% were pleased or impressed and more like 70% were displeased or let down. i have a local dealership that has a few of them in house with burnt up transmissions. duck hunters put 28-29" tires on them and park them in a mud hole, hunt a few hours, then come back to them and start them up and try to take off and it burns the clutch or trans or whatever is going on inside there. one of the machines burnt the trans so bad inside it melted all the sensors and plastic stuff on the outside. game changer.... nope.... blow a belt, 15-20 min change.... burn the trans up and the machine is nearly totaled from costs to fix and replace it. the one at the dealer that burned the trans up and melted everything, cost to replace it and fix everything was $7700. insurance paid out and dealer is fixing it now. or was last week when i saw it.

    OEMs use the belt drive because its cheap. you would be surprised at how cheap. the machine you chose to purchase has the highest part failure rate of any machine on the market. there are lots of parts on them that are junk, most everything is poorly and cheaply made, most every single part from the bearings to the wiring in ecu is done as cheaply as possible to maximize profits. that is how they have become the biggest. because of their constant push to build them cheaper, they have been able to maximize profits, and turn those profits into R&D on the next best project and are able to fast track stuff out and get customers something new every 6 months. are the machines well thought out, meh.... are they built tough to last, not at all.... they are built to have fun on and with that fun unfortunately comes a cost of repairs and rebuilds and maintenance. i absolutely hate how cheaply some have become on their parts. but it sells parts and new machines. its a game they have played and figured out.

    building parts that wear out in 500-1000 miles does two-fold. (1) for customers with expendable income, they just wear this one out and go buy a new one. $$$ money in OEMs pocket. (2) jimmy joe blow that doesnt have deep pockets has to start saving up for a new part once his wore out. he purchases the new part for $609, OEM sells it to a dealer for $300, OEM only has $30 in said part. OEM profits $270, dealer profits $300 $$$$ more money in everybodys pocket. they have played the game long enough, they have tested parts over and over and figured out what it takes to make it last, then what it takes to make it cheaper, and then figured out the balance of how cheap can we make it, and still make it last a little while, but still wear out in an understandable amount of time so that it forces the customer to become a continual cash cow one way or another. they have built them to wear out. honda is no different. their ATV lines used to last 15+ years before a single thing would wear out. now they have cheap valve stem seals that start leaking over time, plastic camshafts in their generators that wear out in less than 1000 hours. they along with everyone are trying to figure out how to keep people on the books for life by building things that wear out so you will replace it or buy a new one. the talon is a new machine, i hope you buy one and love it so you can get off the hate bandwagon for every other machine. and i would really really like it if you stopped putting words in the middle of sentences in parenthesis or in quotations. just type a sentence with less emphasis nobody cares for the rants.

    before you try to second guess me on the cost of parts, i am speaking from experience, i work with many of the parts manufacturers that the OEMs use, i have some of these companies build me parts, and in cross the table conversations ive asked "whats this part cost" simply to have numbers in my head. parts the OEMs pay $30 for, will retail at dealers for $600+. this is facts. this is how they make money. and they are constantly looking for ways to make those parts cheaper. some of these OEMs strong arm the manufacturer every year or two and threaten to take their business elsewhere if the manufacturer wont produce the parts for cheaper. dont hate the player, hate the game!
     
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  20. It'sYourLegacy

    It'sYourLegacy Banned Por Vida

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    Sand Shark's previous commentary in post# 18 isn't readable to me this morning yet I believe that it's copied properly here. Looking forward to commenting on AirDam's as well. The latter obviously lives what we have to put up with every day in terms of not necessarily bad 'design' birthing reliability issues but often product/part quality burdened with carrying out engineered concepts in an extremely competitive market.
    Kind of similar to the myth that one will ever consistently beat a team not necessarily 'changing' OEM parts under purposely crafted racing rules creating obvious and exclusive advantages....but heat treating, mirror polishing, (etc.) every single critical part in/on a car due to other obvious advantages as well.
    Can't wait to see how a sealed transmission acts when it is torn apart/meticulously reassembled yet we can bet that it is already happening.

    (Sand Shark in post # 18):
    "The only thing Homda is bringing to the table is the DCT set up which they have been using in a utility UTV. They have adapted for a sport UTV. It is a great option for someone that wants the shift or want to cruise on a trail and not worry about shifting. Is this the way the sport SXS might head? That remains to be seen.

    I don’t think the manufacturers are shaking in their boots over this. They for sure are taking a look.

    The Honda faithful will love the Talon. Too bad all those having it on their Christmas list won’t have it this Christmas.

    It is a nice entry in to the sport market. It will sell and probably at the same rate as the Yamaha. It is not a game changer. It is a progression in the market."
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018

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