Shock revalving for dummies....

NYCEGUY01

Member
Jul 9, 2012
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0
6
instead of adding the .08 between existing .12 on your stack, add the .08 thick x .95 in diameter on top of the stock stack and then add a pair of .10 x 1.30 or a .08 + a .10(same as your largest stock shim diameter) on top. My $.02

The stacks I used as examples were just for an example. I have no idea whats in my shocks currently.

I just wanted to make sure the basic concepts I had in my head were correct.
 

AReed

Member
Oct 2, 2012
234
2
18
Pretty much a flutter is a fulcrum and it will work much better than the progressive stack that you mentioned. Flutters generally will work the best for us off road guys. When you break open the shocks post up your specs.
 

NYCEGUY01

Member
Jul 9, 2012
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0
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Finally got everything here so I broke them open...

Rebound -
__ 15
___ 15
____ 15
______ 15
________ 15

Compression -

__ 20
___ 20
_____ 20
_______ 20
_________ 20
__ 8
_______ 15
_________ 15

Right now on hi speed hard hits it will bottom out in the rear. I need a little more compression just on the highest speed hits. If possible I would also like to soften up the real slow speed stuff if possible. Im guessing that's what the small 8 shim under the largest 20 was for ?

As far as rebound I need more. On any jumps with a lip etc or even in the whoops after a few the rear starts really bucking up. After it starts then it starts swapping side to side etc...
Should I just swap to a 20 entire stack to replace the 15 there ?


OK Experts... tell me what I should do before I make this thing un driveable by guessing...


Also, The oil is 1 year old and was as black and ugly as can be. Is that normal ? I was kinda expecting it to be much cleaner...

I also learned something... In the Instruction sheet I got from King they said to put 15psi in the reservoir to bottom the piston and ensure all the oil was out... I learned that of you don't cover the shock with a rag your shop gets a nice little shower in dirty shock oil...lol
 

c&c rhino

UTVUnderground SXS Tech - UTVUnderground Approved
Jan 18, 2009
351
11
18
lake elsinore, ca
after a few whoops the rear bucks up is packing. depending on the lip your not always gonna be able to handle peaky jumps and lots of whoops with the same setup well. there are alot of variables that need to be described to achieve what you want out of the car suspension wise. am i bottoming from valving or is my spring that far off? are the jumps just not suited towards sxs's etc.
 

NYCEGUY01

Member
Jul 9, 2012
60
0
6
So I may actually need less rebound dampening ?


The springs are 250's, I just buffed off the powder on the bottom to verify.

I have been told that if the springs hold up the car without excess sagging they are correct.

The short ramps and the ones with lips will throw the rear up. I realize that this is likely just due to terrain.
On the slow roller type jumps it fly's pretty flat.

Mostly I want to hit the whoops without ending up upside down.
The packing makes sense as it hits the 1st couple whoops just fine then starts bucking and only gets worse the longer I stay in it.

Should I just swap the entire 15 stack for a 10 on the rebound ?

As far as compression , it rides pretty good. With a passenger it is pretty easy to bottom it out in the rear coming off small dunes etc...

How much of a change would it be to just pull the 15's or the 8 shim and just run a straight stack without the flutter ?

Sorry if these are basic questions..lol Ive never been inside a shock before today...

I just don't know how much change = how much noticed difference.
Like is going from a 15 stack to a 10 stack gonna be night and day difference or barely noticed etc...

Lastly... If I have less rebound dampening it seems like possibly I wont need more compression dampening. My mind sees more exposed shaft with looser rebound and thus more shock travel to go through when I come to the bottom of a big dune.

Does this seem correct to anyone else but me ? Am I just overthinking it...lol
 

NYCEGUY01

Member
Jul 9, 2012
60
0
6
Just so we are on the same page.
have a 2011 RSR S.
It has the +6 HCR arms. When I bought the suspension it was valved for rock crawling and slow speed stuff. Not ideal for duning.

I sent the shocks back to King and had them revalved by Eribe.
They got a ton better but are not quite there yet...

I asked about springs and was told I was good to go there with what I had.


Here is the RZR in question...

 

NYCEGUY01

Member
Jul 9, 2012
60
0
6
This is what I am thinking...

Rebound-
__ 10- replace the entire stack of 15's with 10's.
____ 10
_____ 10
______ 10
_______ 10

Compression-

__ 20- to just double up the highest speed shim.
__ 20- no change
___ 20- no change
____ 20- no change
_____ 20- no change
______ 20- no change
__ 8- no change
_____ 10- to replace 15
______ 10- to replace 15

Thoughts ?
 

Glamisfan

Active Member
Oct 26, 2009
671
103
43
imperial valley
Since this is your first time into the shocks, you might want to just change one thing, and then see if it went the right direction, and if it effected the other range. You have a lot of valving in there already. It would have been nice to have someone drive it through some whoops while you watch to see if its packing up in the rear.
 

Glamisfan

Active Member
Oct 26, 2009
671
103
43
imperial valley
Finally got everything here so I broke them open...

Rebound -
__ 15
___ 15
____ 15
______ 15
________ 15

Compression -

__ 20
___ 20
_____ 20
_______ 20
_________20?
_________ 20
__ 8
_______ 15
_________ 15

Right now on hi speed hard hits it will bottom out in the rear. I need a little more compression just on the highest speed hits. If possible I would also like to soften up the real slow speed stuff if possible. Im guessing that's what the small 8 shim under the largest 20 was for ?

As far as rebound I need more. On any jumps with a lip etc or even in the whoops after a few the rear starts really bucking up. After it starts then it starts swapping side to side etc...
Should I just swap to a 20 entire stack to replace the 15 there ?


OK Experts... tell me what I should do before I make this thing un driveable by guessing...


Also, The oil is 1 year old and was as black and ugly as can be. Is that normal ? I was kinda expecting it to be much cleaner...

I also learned something... In the Instruction sheet I got from King they said to put 15psi in the reservoir to bottom the piston and ensure all the oil was out... I learned that of you don't cover the shock with a rag your shop gets a nice little shower in dirty shock oil...lol
In looking at your comp stack, I would possibly add another .020 that's the same size as the largest or second largest .020 that's already on there.
The oil usually looks that dirty after a year. If your rebound is too soft, I'd first try changing the two largest shims to .020's. If it's too stiff and packing, I'd change to a .012 stack.
 

NYCEGUY01

Member
Jul 9, 2012
60
0
6
I just threw in a 12 stack for rebound and doubled up the large 20 on the compression side.

I got a notebook to keep track of changes etc...

If it doesn't work Ill at least know what I did and how the car reacted to it.

One more question. Can you "add up" shims ?
Lets say I need a 20 and I don't have one. Will 2 10's stacked on top of each other of the same diameter act like a single 20 ?

Im going to try and document the changes etc.. here as well in hopes to help someone else new to all this like myself.

This will either work better or Ill need a new light bar due to being upside down...

New stacks are as follows , Ill update after Labor day to how the car reacted....

Rebound-
__ 12
___ 12
____ 12
_____ 12
______ 12

Compression-
__ 20
___ 20
____ 20
_____ 20
______ 20
______ 20
__ 8
_____ 15
______ 15
 

Glamisfan

Active Member
Oct 26, 2009
671
103
43
imperial valley
From what I've recently seen on another thread, two 10s together does not equal a 20. A 20 has a lot of bending resistance, where as two 10's will flex more or bend easier than one 20. So they would be maybe close to a single 15? Just slowly work your speed up through the whoops and you'll be fine. And if you can't have someone drive through the whoops for you while you watch it, then at least have someone video you doing it or set up a phone or camera on the hood of your vehicle so you can film yourself going through. Good luck!
 

NYCEGUY01

Member
Jul 9, 2012
60
0
6
Im going to try and rig up a temp mount for my go pro to watch the rear shock to see for sure whats happening down there.
If its packing up I should be able to see it.
Ill have someone go for a ride with me and film the going through the same section etc...

After Labor day Ill at least know what exactly is happening.
 

deviant_illusion

go to the UTVUnderground where there is cool SHIAT
Feb 4, 2009
241
8
18
41
WVC, UT
I think your taking the rebound in the wrong direction personally. I think a 20 stack will be closer to what you need.
 

NYCEGUY01

Member
Jul 9, 2012
60
0
6
Youre probably right. lol

Ill know this weekend. Im going to take everything with me to the dunes so I can swap it out there if needed.

It hits the 1st few whoops great then starts bucking. It makes sense to me that it might be packing up.

Going softer initially here seems safer to me.
If it is packing already and bottoming out and I go heavier it will be worse and could possibly bend a shock mount tab or hurt a shock etc....

Where did you end up with the valving your Teryx ?

I changed the oil in all 4 today so I can valve them pretty quickly now after a few practice runs in the garage. I know exactly what tools I need etc....
 

NYCEGUY01

Member
Jul 9, 2012
60
0
6
UGH.....

I tried several things and I am still bottoming out on even smaller jumps etc...
It hits the whoops hard and runs through them nice but on even small jumps and g-outs I am bottomed out.
I doubled up the bottom 3 20's and even removed the flutter stack at one point and then it just got real stiff but still bottomed out.

Pretty similar story in the front.

I have made a vast improvement but still nowhere where I need to be...

Im thinking about trying to do a dual rate setup to keep from bottoming the rear .
In my head something like a 500 over a 500 will keep me at a 250 rate ( same as now ) but then be able to ramp up to 500 for the last inch of shaft travel to keep from bottoming out ?

Then Ill take off the 200 front springs and use my 250's from the rear on the front ?

Am I missing anything here ?

Im trying to make what I have work but Im not sure if it will...
 

Glamisfan

Active Member
Oct 26, 2009
671
103
43
imperial valley
If I were you, before changing springs, I'd revalve them using a rate plate. For that, you want the stack to not be too tall. Just 5 or 6 shims. Use a flutter. Then you need a large thick washer after the smallest shim that the largest compression shims will hit on the jumps and the thick washer will act like a stop. I've just read about a rate plate. No real experience here. And I also read that you have to be careful, cause if done wrong, the shock can build up too much pressure.
 

NYCEGUY01

Member
Jul 9, 2012
60
0
6
Talked with the guys at King today.
They suggested that I keep my current springs and just add a little pre-load to them.

As far as the valving he said that I am on the right path except for 1 thing.
I had been filling my shocks to the normal King recommendation of 150 psi.
He said whenever you have a lot of vlaving like I do the psi needs to go up to 250 or even a little more.

He explained that with a lot of valving and not enough pressure it just moves the piston in the reservoir instead of making the fluid move through the valve stack. The higher psi should solve it.

I ordered some more shims now I know what I need and will up the pressure and try to get back out this next weekend to try again...

Im gonna have enough left over shims, seals, and other parts along with the tools to open up a shock service business by the time I get this thing working right...lol
 

yield2me

Member
May 17, 2011
104
1
18
Interesting about the N psi. I will have to remember that. I am kind of in the same boat with my front (rear is good with Bypasses:D).

Keep us posted!!

Rob
 

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