Should BITD Have Let Max Gordon (8yr Old) Race??

BiggJim

I Hate Rules - UTVUnderground Approved
Jan 15, 2009
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Ive been away bout long enough that Cory's back in the news.....not going to happen. As for Max I thought he was too young but I heard he just drove a few miles....maybe that's incorrect. In any case considering the car wasn't as safe as it could be and given Cognito was on the same course......too dangerous...:)
He drove the whole race Felix.....you should watch the video...you might learn a thing or 2:p
 

JoeyD23

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I spoke with Casey on this issue. Here was what he said in a nutshell:

- There has never been an age rule. Teenagers race all the time on bikes. He uses discretion on how old the racer would be, who the parents are, experience, etc.
- He met with Robby in a room prior to the race to discuss this scenario. He then spent time to watch Max drive. He made the decision to let him race being that he saw a very talented kid behind the wheel with one of the most experienced teachers and co-drivers this sport has.
- Robby was in fact suspended, but according to Casey he can make the call whether or not to lift such a suspension and that is in the rules. He said he made the exception because he loves father & son things like this.
- Casey did admit that the vehicle was not legal from a rules standpoint but once again said that it is up to him / them to make exceptions.
- As it pertains to Cory, there will be some changes, I will not speak as to what those are as I believe he and Cory may want to make the announcement. Cory will remain in place but there will be some changes that I think will make many of you happy but I am not sure will make you too excited being that your fellow factory backed competitor will still be telling you if your car is legal or not.

With all this said, speaking with Casey is always good. He always welcomes anyone with a question or concern to contact him at his office. He doesn't read emails unless they are printed, he doesn't read this site unless someone cries to him about it and he will not text message you. You need to call him to talk but he is always there to listen and to respond. While we may not see eye to eye on everything, it goes without question to say that we share a mutual respect for one another. Casey love this sport, loves what he does and at the end of the day its his ship to sail so while we won't always like what he does we do have to respect it as he does make his decisions based on what he feels is the best for the sport at that time.

Make your voices heard. Call him with your concerns but don't complain unless you have a solution!!!
 

NIKAL

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May 13, 2012
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george.felix

George
Jan 11, 2015
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I spoke with Casey on this issue. Here was what he said in a nutshell:

- There has never been an age rule. Teenagers race all the time on bikes. He uses discretion on how old the racer would be, who the parents are, experience, etc.
- He met with Robby in a room prior to the race to discuss this scenario. He then spent time to watch Max drive. He made the decision to let him race being that he saw a very talented kid behind the wheel with one of the most experienced teachers and co-drivers this sport has.
- Robby was in fact suspended, but according to Casey he can make the call whether or not to lift such a suspension and that is in the rules. He said he made the exception because he loves father & son things like this.
- Casey did admit that the vehicle was not legal from a rules standpoint but once again said that it is up to him / them to make exceptions.
- As it pertains to Cory, there will be some changes, I will not speak as to what those are as I believe he and Cory may want to make the announcement. Cory will remain in place but there will be some changes that I think will make many of you happy but I am not sure will make you too excited being that your fellow factory backed competitor will still be telling you if your car is legal or not.

With all this said, speaking with Casey is always good. He always welcomes anyone with a question or concern to contact him at his office. He doesn't read emails unless they are printed, he doesn't read this site unless someone cries to him about it and he will not text message you. You need to call him to talk but he is always there to listen and to respond. While we may not see eye to eye on everything, it goes without question to say that we share a mutual respect for one another. Casey love this sport, loves what he does and at the end of the day its his ship to sail so while we won't always like what he does we do have to respect it as he does make his decisions based on what he feels is the best for the sport at that time.

Make your voices heard. Call him with your concerns but don't complain unless you have a solution!!!
If there really is no age rule per se then at what age does BITD discretion come into play?
 

kmb760

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Mar 28, 2013
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If there really is no age rule per se then at what age does BITD discretion come into play?
In my opinion no matter what age you are its always under the BITD discretion of whether or not you can race with the best. I'm sure whether you're 90 or 9 and ask to race they are going to want to see some current status of you're awareness, reaction time, accomplishments, and judgement of terrain to make the call on whether or not you can race with the elite division.
 

NIKAL

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May 13, 2012
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In my opinion no matter what age you are its always under the BITD discretion of whether or not you can race with the best. I'm sure whether you're 90 or 9 and ask to race they are going to want to see some current status of you're awareness, reaction time, accomplishments, and judgement of terrain to make the call on whether or not you can race with the elite division.
BITD or any other off road series does not ask or want to know your current racing status or accomplishments before letting you race. The Only requirement needed is to be able pay the entry fee. If your a minor you need perental consent and they need to sign a form. This is nothing new.
 
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george.felix

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In my opinion no matter what age you are its always under the BITD discretion of whether or not you can race with the best. I'm sure whether you're 90 or 9 and ask to race they are going to want to see some current status of you're awareness, reaction time, accomplishments, and judgement of terrain to make the call on whether or not you can race with the elite division.
Well how do you explain they let me drive.....some big cracks in the verification process. Lol I think Max opens it up to anyone under 16 which I think is the written rule not that it matters who can handle a race car safely. Safe to themselves and others. The first time a teen driver gets hurt or causes a major incident will be bad for all the others that follow. Young Gun chose Shelby Anderson who looks 14 but just turning 20 because we felt she had the maturity and driving style to not only do well but more importantly do it safely. That's the parents or adults responsibility NOT to put a young person who's not ready into this environment. It's not safe for them or for others. The speeds are greater and there isn't anyone trackside to come rescue you.
 

JoeyD23

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BITD or any other off road series does not ask or want to know your current racing status or accomplishments before letting you race. The Only requirement needed is to be able pay the entry fee. If your a minor you need perental consent and they need to sign a form. This is nothing new.
That's not what Casey told me in conversation over this. I asked him point blank if I then could have my 10 year old son drive with me and he said he would need to see him drive and want to know more about my racing history. He had Robby show him Max driving and because it was RG made the decision to let him race.
 

NIKAL

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KMB760's comment I was speaking about was he said "No matter what age, you are under BITD discretion. If your 90 or 9 they will want to see your accomplishments." And we know that's not the case. How many "More money then brains" have we seen show up with a TT and race? I could buy a new TT and race the next BITD race without anyone at BITD asking a single question about my experience or ability. They would take my entry fee and shake my hand, that's it!

I can't quote Casey about minors, but I know Justin Lofton did not have his drivers license yet, a paid entry fee and his dad signing the minor form, he was racing class 10. The only one with real racing experience in the car was me. We were the "B" team as Bob Lofton & Mike Julson were in the class 1 car racing the same races. I even brought some of my crew guys to cover the "B" team pits. So while Justin was not 10 years old his was only a few years more.


Joey, Being that you & MM own the UTVC and have the final say, even though the actual race will be run by BITD. Are you going to allow Max to race??
 
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JoeyD23

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KMB760's comment I was speaking about was he said "No matter what age, you are under BITD discretion. If your 90 or 9 they will want to see your accomplishments." And we know that's not the case. How many "More money then brains" have we seen show up with a TT and race? I could buy a new TT and race the next BITD race without anyone at BITD asking a single question about my experience or ability. They would take my entry fee and shake my hand, that's it!

I can't quote Casey about minors, but I know Justin Lofton did not have his drivers license yet, a paid entry fee and his dad signing the minor form, he was racing class 10. The only one with real racing experience in the car was me. We were the "B" team as Bob Lofton & Mike Julson were in the class 1 car racing the same races. I even brought some of my crew guys to cover the "B" team pits. So while Justin was not 10 years old his was only a few years more.


Joey, Being that you & MM own the UTVC and have the final say, even though the actual race will be run by BITD. Are you going to allow Max to race??
We defer all race decisions to BITD. They are paid to sanction the race and out of respect for them and their experience in running races we allow them to make those types of decisions and expect them to do so. With that said, they do not tell us how to film for TV lol
 
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badassmav

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We defer all race decisions to BITD. They are paid to sanction the race and out of respect for them and their experience in running races we allow them to make those types of decisions and expect them to do so. With that said, they do not tell us how to film for TV lol
Good answer!
I think what IYL is suggesting is not realistic. For every manufacturer that participates in the BITD contingency program and/or event sponsorship to boycott BITD, or force their hand so to speak is ridiculous. To hold them personally responsible for not stepping up and protesting before an accident occurs? Well, that's just plain ignorant.

This ain't the effen ACLU! If he doesn't agree with BITD's decision to allow a consented, experienced 8 year old to race, then he alone can boycott by no longer participating in BITD events. If he is not a participating member of BITD, then it is none of his business as to the calculated decisions a promoter makes regarding the daily operations of his organization. Period. End of story.

If an unfortunate incident occurred between the young driver and any other entity adjacent to him, that would be a penalty that BITD and RG would have to absorb, and live with. Any post incident direction off road racing may take is purely speculation, and should not be entertained at this time. To say that age supersedes seat time when it comes to the ability to safely handle a race car with the help of a worthy co-driver is ludicrous.
Here comes an analogous mouthful:
If 11 and12 year old prodigies are cognizant enough to already be far beyond a high school level of education, and are currently enrolled in college pre med courses, academically passing up men twice their age, then why is it so hard to comprehend that an 8 year old, who most likely spent over half of his life learning to drive a multitude of performance and race oriented vehicles, have the aptitude and maturity to participate in a desert race under the close supervision and direction of an experienced adult? Hmmm, I ask?
If it were two 8 year old kids simultaneously acting as driver and co-driver in the same car, then yes, there would be good reason for alarm. Oh, and Just to touch on the topic of trading paint with a 4 year, pre-pubecent driver:
IDK that RG expects anyone to dance around his son during a race. I'm guessing he expects people to challenge Max if he is in their way, and respects the fact if they do.

Here, lets shed some light on this "How young is too young" question, and see if we can't widen the perspective. Ask Rob Mac, or Andy Mac (or Ronald Mac for that matter), how many decisions they unilaterally make during the course of an event, and how many are decided based upon the input from the co-driver. I'm pretty sure that with the gobs of experience they possess, they still rely on their co-drivers to help guide them through the terrain. "Hard braking" here, or "sharp turn" there. "Gas stop in 2 miles". "Oil pressure has been running low". Whatever the call. Participation in today's off road racing arena is a joint effort in the car, and a team effort collectively. Any decisions that are too overwhelming for a driver make on his own (and there are many of them), will have the benefit of the immediate assistance by his trusty cohorts. So, what's the difference? The kid can gas, steer, and brake as good as most he competes against, and relies on the help of his team mates to make it to the checkers.

I think Joey brought up a good topic that needed discussing, and IYL has already formed a firm opinion, blocking out any reasonable efforts to discuss anything at all.

For the record, in posting this opinion there has been no consideration given regarding the promoters decision to allow or not allow a vehicle to race based upon (non) compliance with safety or competition regulations. The obvious crux here is whether or not an 8 year old possesses the ability to safely drive a race car in a BITD event, and whether or not he should have been, or should be allowed to, compete against adults in said arena.
 

george.felix

George
Jan 11, 2015
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Two comments......until you seen him drive it does seem crazy to put an 8 yr old behind the wheel. But he can clearly handle the car so imo moot point. Agree he shouldn't be on course without an adult in case something happens an 8 yr old can't handle.

Secondly, this process of evaluation or exception to the rule should apply to others not just Max Gordon. Everything being equal everyone should have the same opportunity. The Young Gun program did not have 8 yr olds in mind but I don't see why not a proven capable young person under 16 if the situation made sense. Just an addendum to that.......I'd never recommend an adult to jump into a race car at something like BITD and mix it up without adequate racing experience. Imo that's dangerous.
 

It'sYourLegacy

Banned Por Vida
Mar 29, 2015
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"...If an unfortunate incident occurred between the young driver and any other entity adjacent to him, that would be a 'penalty' that (***ONLY***) BITD and RG would have to absorb, and ***live with***. Any post incident direction off road racing may take is purely speculation, and should not be entertained at this time.."

It's Your Legacy (silence).
 
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It'sYourLegacy

Banned Por Vida
Mar 29, 2015
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^^^^^^^^^
...it's getting to the point where statements such as the above are left unquestioned...cars are designed around "MadMax" intentions (and nothing else)...and we're all supposed to attend or follow these races/racers for 'what' purpose? Bringing back the good 'ol days of the Roman Colliseums?
How does one find anything in common with those who sit silently when absolutely everything 'good' or 'right' is put in to question?...LET ALONE when "penalties" are perversed upon our very own children?
 

Bricoop

New Member
Jan 8, 2017
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^^^^^^^^^
...it's getting to the point where statements such as the above are left unquestioned...cars are designed around "MadMax" intentions (and nothing else)...and we're all supposed to attend or follow these races/racers for 'what' purpose? Bringing back the good 'ol days of the Roman Colliseums?
How does one find anything in common with those who sit silently when absolutely everything 'good' or 'right' is put in to question?...LET ALONE when "penalties" are perversed upon our very own children?
What? :confused::confused::confused:
 

It'sYourLegacy

Banned Por Vida
Mar 29, 2015
371
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Exactly. Dont get him started.
...correct tatum...(most) 1900 racers do not have any problem whatsoever with preemptively diminishing any potential fallout from the next preventable/inevitable safety-related tragedy in this series involving anybody but themselves (they hope and pray).

"...If an unfortunate incident occurred between the young driver and any other entity adjacent to him, that would be a 'penalty' that (***ONLY***) BITD and RG would have to absorb, and ***live with***. Any post incident direction off road racing may take is purely speculation, and should not be entertained at this time.."

May God help every single one of you willing to shoot the messenger over safety in this class versus standing up like men to prevent your own families from suffering needlessly when the inevitable soon happens.

These statements will continually haunt you all (like a curse) and you all full well know it.

 

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