The State of the UTV Desert Racing Class

[Bajaxp]

...and don't forget contingency $$$. ^^^ It is not huge bucks, but it is better than a poke in the eye. The bottom line is that racing isn't cheap, even if this is more of an entry level class. Think of the guy in the Mercedes that bitches about the green fees at some high zoot golf course.

Todd, right now the engine rules are working, with the CVT being the great equalizer...think belts. I am not opposed to a pump gas rule, and disagree with the gentleman at Queen, just like I disagreed with Kevin Kroyer regarding class 10. Kevin thought that bringing the Ecotec engine into class 10 was a horrible idea. Well it would be a horrible idea for him because he wouldn't be able to sell any more $25k 1600cc Honda engines that needed to be gone through every other race. The Ecotec totally transformed and rejuvenated class 10. Were there were 6-8 racing each other five years ago, class 10 now often will have as many entries as UTV's at certain races. I really don't think pump gas will bring in titanium con rods and billet cranks. But pump gas will be another thing to police and I honestly don't know if BITD has tools or personnel to test for pump gas. A sealed engine would be much easier to police. But even a sealed engine isn't necessary with our class at this moment, because nobody has come in (to my knowledge) with huge power and spanked everyone. Maybe if it becomes a problem in the future something will need to be done, but we don't need to chase ghosts now.

Rule stabilization is as important as anything in helping our class grow. If a new rule, were to be implemented, the rule should be announced way before it is implemented, to give teams a chance to plan and test. Turbos for example...if (and that is a BIG 'if') the rules committee agreed that this was something they wanted to do, they should have said they will be legal in 2016, not 2015 so the Murray's new car they built in 2014 wouldn't immediately be obsolete. Same goes with larger O.D. tires. Give the teams some time to try some stuff out and who knows, it might even be enough time for a tire manufacturer to come out with a new tire.

I stand by what I said regarding building a whole car from a complete vehicle versus trying to put one together from a parts book. The later is significantly more expensive and it takes FOREVER to look up and order every little thing from electronic microfiche. Imagine looking up 1200 part numbers and ordering them from the pimple faced parts kid at the local dealership? Ugggg. I keep hearing 'the frame,' but the frame is only one part number. What about brakes, prop shaft, front hilliard, clutches, and the list goes on. I forgot about the racer discount program that Joey mentioned. That is a good deal.

As for me, I am still a card carrying member of the Jagged X Polaris race team, but I told them that I need to take some time off from racing to take care of some important issues close to home. I am sure I will return to racing at some point.

 

[rockstarcustomz]

Polaris and Can Am also offer contingency money on podium finishes, which would also go away.

 

[wireguy]

The factory support of the sport is an awesome thing, no other class has any factory support at all. I can remember back in the day when there was factory support in the form of contingency money from Detroit but that is all gone now and they have moved on. There was a day when Ford offered contingency money to production based classes in BITD, and the Stock Mini's, 7s and Stock Fulls could make more in winnings then the Trick Trucks. That being said even thou the factory contingency money was still available the evolution of truck racing moved forward to the more unlimited truck racing and away from the production based classes. Some of that had to do with the economy that hit the smaller teams more then the bigger ones. The question I asked earlier in the thread is besides contingency money for winning, are there teams, builders, or individuals that recieve support from the factories in the form of checks, parts, cars, trailers, toterhomes, or whatever and is that money going to a wide group of people and teams or just a small handful, and is that small handful the same people steering the direction and state of UTV desert racing. Obviously I'm not niave, money talks, but just curous if the decisions being made to keep the cars more production based, ie stock frame rails, suspension pivot points etc. are based more on certain people wanting to keep their factory money rolling in, then on what might make better faster safer desert race cars.

 

[JoeyD23]

The factory support of the sport is an awesome thing, no other class has any factory support at all. I can remember back in the day when there was factory support in the form of contingency money from Detroit but that is all gone now and they have moved on. There was a day when Ford offered contingency money to production based classes in BITD, and the Stock Mini's, 7s and Stock Fulls could make more in winnings then the Trick Trucks. That being said even thou the factory contingency money was still available the evolution of truck racing moved forward to the more unlimited truck racing and away from the production based classes. Some of that had to do with the economy that hit the smaller teams more then the bigger ones. The question I asked earlier in the thread is besides contingency money for winning, are there teams, builders, or individuals that recieve support from the factories in the form of checks, parts, cars, trailers, toterhomes, or whatever and is that money going to a wide group of people and teams or just a small handful, and is that small handful the same people steering the direction and state of UTV desert racing. Obviously I'm not niave, money talks, but just curous if the decisions being made to keep the cars more production based, ie stock frame rails, suspension pivot points etc. are based more on certain people wanting to keep their factory money rolling in, then on what might make better faster safer desert race cars.

We all will have some self serving reasons as to why we side with certain issues. Thats part of life. Of course I don't want to see budgets dry up for us from the racing side. We will still survive and continue to do work on the recreational side but if we can't produce events and content with OEM funding for racing then it affects all of you, not just us!

Its all pretty simple. You lose OEM support you will lose the allure that the class has. The minute we stop building "RZRs" "Mavericks", etc and start building mini buggies then we will just be another buggy class in off road. UTVs are cool right now. People have the ability to go buy one on Monday and go race it by Saturday. You can't do that in any other class. LETS NOT RUIN WHAT IS GREAT ABOUT OUR CLASS. We are UTVs, not mini buggies. Lets be persistent in improving the class, but lets be content with who we are and what is special about our class.

 

[NIKAL]

Well the good news is it seems like most are happy with the current state of the 1900 class, and they feel if left alone the future of the class is going to be good. It also seems like most are happy with the current rules package and no major rules changes look to be needed for awhile.

The one place it seems people would like to see a change is, many would like to see a Class Rep System and to have the Race Series handle Tech like they do for all other classes.

I really hope everyone is right and this class does not repeat the history of so many other classes which had OEM and a large Aftermarket support. Biggest problem is so much of that history is not in the classes hands as its controlled by the OEM's CEO's and shareholders.

 

[Ignore Amos]

Joey, you and I agree on many if not most part on the UTV industry and racing.. but on the Unlimited Pro class we do not... the Unlimited class will grow as it does offer a number of options for racers. It will and does get factory support... We are a factory team and do race in this class (and I have heard a rumor or two that Polaris will have a car running there one of these days)... but here is why it has value:
1. it allows many cars that have lived past their shelf life in the Pro class... can now add a turbo, bigger motor- advanced suspension and still go out and compete. With the speed of advancement in UTV racing, and the factory backed and or top private teams are basically having to build new cars every year to compete at the highest level- the previous cars are negated to being back markers but now those cars can be sold to others that are not interested in running in the production pro class (and at typically much lower costs than building a new car) there is an abundance of 1-2 year old pro cars on the market that are sitting because they just enough market for used cars in the pro class and and very few new people coming into the sportsman class (which priviously was the most obvious place for them to go)
2. It allows cars such as mine- which was built to run in the Pro Production class, that became obsolete the moment that a Turbo was allowed to race..since its a 2014, and only 2015 Mavs can run turbo's-Unlimited Pro, gave us a place to go race and still run as a Pro team. You have pointed out that the Unlimited cars should be running at the front of the pack considering they can really do what ever they want.. good point but this is a brand new class in essence- it was only SR1's in the past which we all know have their strengths and weakness and their weakness's far outweighed their strengths. its only been 3.5 months since this class started. Give it a chance for the cars to get sorted and figured out. My car is a Pro class car that will be running a stock turbo motor that is about the same HP as most of the Pro cars..it is a pro class suspension.. will it get more suspension? Yes.. will it get more HP? yes but we are taking baby steps we are still limited by CVT's and other things..Will the SR1 Frankenstein cars as you call them get better? oh for sure..that Polaris Rzr 4x4 with the Apex motor is sick..The best teams will always be at the top and right now they are all in Pro production and I can't foresee anybody leaving. Will some of them enter a car in Unlimited.. I hope so.

I like this class...the numbers will grow, the cars and teams will get better- its a good alternative for some and it will in no way endanger UTV Pro Production racing..just make it more appealing to more racers as a whole.

 

[BiggJim]

Nikal IDK why you seem to think the engine cost is an issue? There arent many teams even building engines. There is already an engine rule....1000cc max.

 

[NIKAL]

Nikal IDK why you seem to think the engine cost is an issue? There arent many teams even building engines. There is already an engine rule....1000cc max.

Well Joey started a thread about "Cheeter" engines and that thread blew up. And your right I would guess the majority are not doing more then a stage 2 cam, programmer & muffler. But looking at the rules there is nothing to keep anyone from from doing anything they wan,t as long as they are under 1000 cc and used factory engine case & head. I know how pricey a VW 1600 engine has gotten, and how important HP is in those cars. You need that power to win in those cars. Maybe right now you don't need that power to win in a 1900 car, but in a few years when more cars are at the top of the game, engines will play more of a role. And I've seen and heard what some of these guys are currently spending on their UTV engines and then add the price of race fuel and you have now increased the cost of racing dramatically.

Like I stated in my first post you need to look at the future of the class. One of the places I see could and probably will cost this class more money in the future, is in the engines as the rules are wide open. My thought was by adding a few simple rules like pump gas or compression it might help keep the price in check with why this class was started. Making small rule changes before they become a problem is much easier and cheaper then asking 1/2 or 3/4 of the class to revert back, and all the money they spent is now wasted. Mandating a pump gas rule would cost the majority of the 1900 teams $0 dollars. Some that are running hi comp engines, would have to fix or replace that hi comp head. But like you said there aren't many teams buying built race engines. Yet!

Like I also said you have to keep the class in check or racers will look at other classes that are the same price and faster or look for a class that is more affordable.

This thread was just thoughts and ideas, and maybe I'm wrong or looking to far ahead? Like I said in my last post above "It seems like most are happy with the current state of the 1900 class, and they feel if left alone the future of the class is going to be good. It also seems like most are happy with the current rules package and no major rules changes look to be needed for awhile."

 

[BiggJim]

The compression change isnt in the head. Its the change in piston. We run a built engine, its no secret that Sparks racing builds our motors. But everything we have done internally is done in the mindset of durability. These little engines are running high RPM's for hours.

Another thing we are limited at 1000 cc's. So sure some compression can be added. But let me see you take a 14:1 engine on race gas and run vegas 2 reno. LOL....see where Im going with this? The horsepower made would most likely be toast by noon when the heat comes knocking.

The current engine rules in place are good. If you do try and make more limitations it is going to add more cost.

 

[the stripping shop]

the problem with limiting the motor is, the manufacter are still moving forward in design and development. They are using motor builders to help out, look at the 900 motor its almost the same as a 1000 with a stroker crank I wonder who help develop that hint hint. The utv is not an old 1600 motor that quit moving forward. Its a twin cylinder for now but has tons more potential to grow past 1000cc plus more cylinders. Why would you want to hold back the reigns on those manufacters. Imagine if we were still had 800cc rule were would the class be then. I say open the class up more see were the top is at then limit it down. Push the envelope see were the manufacter say "we cant go faster/ or have more power were at the top".

 

[JoeyD23]

Well Joey started a thread about "Cheeter" engines and that thread blew up. And your right I would guess the majority are not doing more then a stage 2 cam, programmer & muffler. But looking at the rules there is nothing to keep anyone from from doing anything they wan,t as long as they are under 1000 cc and used factory engine case & head. I know how pricey a VW 1600 engine has gotten, and how important HP is in those cars. You need that power to win in those cars. Maybe right now you don't need that power to win in a 1900 car, but in a few years when more cars are at the top of the game, engines will play more of a role. And I've seen and heard what some of these guys are currently spending on their UTV engines and then add the price of race fuel and you have now increased the cost of racing dramatically.

Like I stated in my first post you need to look at the future of the class. One of the places I see could and probably will cost this class more money in the future, is in the engines as the rules are wide open. My thought was by adding a few simple rules like pump gas or compression it might help keep the price in check with why this class was started. Making small rule changes before they become a problem is much easier and cheaper then asking 1/2 or 3/4 of the class to revert back, and all the money they spent is now wasted. Mandating a pump gas rule would cost the majority of the 1900 teams $0 dollars. Some that are running hi comp engines, would have to fix or replace that hi comp head. But like you said there aren't many teams buying built race engines. Yet!

Like I also said you have to keep the class in check or racers will look at other classes that are the same price and faster or look for a class that is more affordable.

This thread was just thoughts and ideas, and maybe I'm wrong or looking to far ahead? Like I said in my last post above "It seems like most are happy with the current state of the 1900 class, and they feel if left alone the future of the class is going to be good. It also seems like most are happy with the current rules package and no major rules changes look to be needed for awhile."

The thread I started was about CHEATERS, not related directly to ENGINES. If there is CHEATING taking place I wanted guys to either put or shut up about it. I am sick of hearing complaints of cheating yet no one wants to sack up and call it out WITH FACTS. Only hear say or assumptions.

I don't think guys are cheating with engine builds. Its pointless in a class that isn't about horsepower as much as it is about driver skill and making your junk last long enough and withstand the abuse you have to put it through to keep up the pace of the front runners.

 

[JoeyD23]

the problem with limiting the motor is, the manufacter are still moving forward in design and development. They are using motor builders to help out, look at the 900 motor its almost the same as a 1000 with a stroker crank I wonder who help develop that hint hint. The utv is not an old 1600 motor that quit moving forward. Its a twin cylinder for now but has tons more potential to grow past 1000cc plus more cylinders. Why would you want to hold back the reigns on those manufacters. Imagine if we were still had 800cc rule were would the class be then. I say open the class up more see were the top is at then limit it down. Push the envelope see were the manufacter say "we cant go faster/ or have more power were at the top".

Pretty sure you can thank Kroyer for that development.. lol

 

[JoeyD23]

Joey, you and I agree on many if not most part on the UTV industry and racing.. but on the Unlimited Pro class we do not... the Unlimited class will grow as it does offer a number of options for racers. It will and does get factory support... We are a factory team and do race in this class (and I have heard a rumor or two that Polaris will have a car running there one of these days)... but here is why it has value:
1. it allows many cars that have lived past their shelf life in the Pro class... can now add a turbo, bigger motor- advanced suspension and still go out and compete. With the speed of advancement in UTV racing, and the factory backed and or top private teams are basically having to build new cars every year to compete at the highest level- the previous cars are negated to being back markers but now those cars can be sold to others that are not interested in running in the production pro class (and at typically much lower costs than building a new car) there is an abundance of 1-2 year old pro cars on the market that are sitting because they just enough market for used cars in the pro class and and very few new people coming into the sportsman class (which priviously was the most obvious place for them to go)
2. It allows cars such as mine- which was built to run in the Pro Production class, that became obsolete the moment that a Turbo was allowed to race..since its a 2014, and only 2015 Mavs can run turbo's-Unlimited Pro, gave us a place to go race and still run as a Pro team. You have pointed out that the Unlimited cars should be running at the front of the pack considering they can really do what ever they want.. good point but this is a brand new class in essence- it was only SR1's in the past which we all know have their strengths and weakness and their weakness's far outweighed their strengths. its only been 3.5 months since this class started. Give it a chance for the cars to get sorted and figured out. My car is a Pro class car that will be running a stock turbo motor that is about the same HP as most of the Pro cars..it is a pro class suspension.. will it get more suspension? Yes.. will it get more HP? yes but we are taking baby steps we are still limited by CVT's and other things..Will the SR1 Frankenstein cars as you call them get better? oh for sure..that Polaris Rzr 4x4 with the Apex motor is sick..The best teams will always be at the top and right now they are all in Pro production and I can't foresee anybody leaving. Will some of them enter a car in Unlimited.. I hope so.

I like this class...the numbers will grow, the cars and teams will get better- its a good alternative for some and it will in no way endanger UTV Pro Production racing..just make it more appealing to more racers as a whole.

I hear you. I see the benefit of the Unlimited class if you look at it as a class that saves old machines and gives them new life. I am not opposed to the Unlimited class, I am just afraid of it turning into a frankenstein class that actually takes away from what a UTV class is and should be. Frankly, I don't ever see the Unlimited class being what the Pro UTV class is today and to be even more frank about it, the Unlimited class would have had a better and stronger chance at immediate growth had the factory Turbo machines been ruled to race in Unlimited. We can only assume that Polaris and others will release a Turbo but based on the rules those cars will be built and campaigned in the current Pro UTV class thus continuing to siphon more new machines into the biggest UTV class anyway.

 

[Ignore Amos]

I hear you. I see the benefit of the Unlimited class if you look at it as a class that saves old machines and gives them new life. I am not opposed to the Unlimited class, I am just afraid of it turning into a frankenstein class that actually takes away from what a UTV class is and should be. Frankly, I don't ever see the Unlimited class being what the Pro UTV class is today and to be even more frank about it, the Unlimited class would have had a better and stronger chance at immediate growth had the factory Turbo machines been ruled to race in Unlimited. We can only assume that Polaris and others will release a Turbo but based on the rules those cars will be built and campaigned in the current Pro UTV class thus continuing to siphon more new machines into the biggest UTV class anyway.

Joey... we actually agree... I dont see the Unlimited class pulling away any cars from the Production class.. I also agree that the turbos should have gone to Unlimited until the other manufactures had dogs in the fight. I think part of the rules need to address the fact that this class still represents a UTV class.. It can be a catch can class of sorts but by keeping the CC's to 1000... you are going to limit what reliable hp these cars will make...will some of these UTV's make big HP... sure, but they are limited by the quality of the drivers and teams that race them. I think rules need to be addressed that make them safe and maintain the essence of a UTV platform and engine. Bottom-line, I think this class will bring MORE racers to the UTV ranks.. and give a place for older platforms to go and still compete at a high level. Thanks for engaging in the conversation.

 

[ironworks]

The appeal of the UTV class is the fact that a guy can bolt on some after market parts and go racing in the desert. And guys with some fab experience or deep pockets could go race in BITD. Heck I'm still making payment on my low interest loan for the XP I bought last year and got a little carried away with. ( My car is now a hellraiser we built with the help of Cognito ). Everything else is really stock, engine trans and such. I have repaired some weak links. But I just changed my 2nd belt after the last race as I have never blown a belt. I raced 2 BITD races Henderson 250 and Parker and had to take a break to build some cars at work so I skipped the MINT. But the appeal to this class is how easy it is to actually go racing without all the crazy stuff. A class 10 buggy has a crate engine and 30k trans, to me that's a big expense. I'm still learning about all the other classes. But there is no other desert class you can make payments on your race car in. You don't need a built engine to top 10 at a BITD race. We almost did that twice by just a few seconds. (9th at henderson and 12th at Parker, I was like 30 seconds from 9th ) Don't ask why.

I have raced all kinds of stuff in my life and it never ceases to amaze me how many guys would rather whine then actually work on their car. I have also never seen so many guys drive completely over their head in a race event. At my first pure race I got passed by a ton of guys on the first lap only to see them rolled over or the complete left sides of the car torn off. Like MAJOR MAJOR damage on barely 1 lap into the race. I got Top 5's just because we kept the car up right and still running. So many people drive like hell and pull over to fix it and drive like hell and fix it again in the pits and drive like hell and break it again all day long. I remember one guy at a Pure race came in the pits with 4 flats tire. How do you get 4 flat tires? Seriously, its crazy.

The rules are fine, if someone is cheating they really sucks a cheating. Because the races are really competitive. I got passed quite a few times at Parker and you can see Holz or who ever was driving was just along for a Sunday drive at a much faster pace when they came from the back to pass me. But I'm gonna guess he did not even have a flat tire or belt issues. I also got passed by guys who blew my doors off like they were running from the cops to find they shreaded the belt or got a bunch flats. But no one wants to admit you can't buy talent, you have to earn it, and our society is so entitled and used to getting participation ribbons that they think if they did not win with this million dollar golf kart some one much be cheating. Does some one really think Cognito changed the engine in the parking lot of a a mexican food restaurant? Come on have you seen their crew, they were eating because they were Hungry and if they were changing an engine don't you think they would go some where else to do it and not on the main drag in Parker.

I think this group needs to realize that this class is made up a ton of rookies and until it has veterans that are going to know enough and want to stand up for what they have it will be this way. You have about 10-15 teams that are really serious in a 60 car field.

I want to be, but I gonna finish my pit stop when I'm done eating.

 

[wireguy]

The appeal of the UTV class is the fact that a guy can bolt on some after market parts and go racing in the desert. And guys with some fab experience or deep pockets could go race in BITD. Heck I'm still making payment on my low interest loan for the XP I bought last year and got a little carried away with. ( My car is now a hellraiser we built with the help of Cognito ). Everything else is really stock, engine trans and such. I have repaired some weak links. But I just changed my 2nd belt after the last race as I have never blown a belt. I raced 2 BITD races Henderson 250 and Parker and had to take a break to build some cars at work so I skipped the MINT. But the appeal to this class is how easy it is to actually go racing without all the crazy stuff. A class 10 buggy has a crate engine and 30k trans, to me that's a big expense. I'm still learning about all the other classes. But there is no other desert class you can make payments on your race car in. You don't need a built engine to top 10 at a BITD race. We almost did that twice by just a few seconds. (9th at henderson and 12th at Parker, I was like 30 seconds from 9th ) Don't ask why.

I have raced all kinds of stuff in my life and it never ceases to amaze me how many guys would rather whine then actually work on their car. I have also never seen so many guys drive completely over their head in a race event. At my first pure race I got passed by a ton of guys on the first lap only to see them rolled over or the complete left sides of the car torn off. Like MAJOR MAJOR damage on barely 1 lap into the race. I got Top 5's just because we kept the car up right and still running. So many people drive like hell and pull over to fix it and drive like hell and fix it again in the pits and drive like hell and break it again all day long. I remember one guy at a Pure race came in the pits with 4 flats tire. How do you get 4 flat tires? Seriously, its crazy.

The rules are fine, if someone is cheating they really sucks a cheating. Because the races are really competitive. I got passed quite a few times at Parker and you can see Holz or who ever was driving was just along for a Sunday drive at a much faster pace when they came from the back to pass me. But I'm gonna guess he did not even have a flat tire or belt issues. I also got passed by guys who blew my doors off like they were running from the cops to find they shreaded the belt or got a bunch flats. But no one wants to admit you can't buy talent, you have to earn it, and our society is so entitled and used to getting participation ribbons that they think if they did not win with this million dollar golf kart some one much be cheating. Does some one really think Cognito changed the engine in the parking lot of a a mexican food restaurant? Come on have you seen their crew, they were eating because they were Hungry and if they were changing an engine don't you think they would go some where else to do it and not on the main drag in Parker.

I think this group needs to realize that this class is made up a ton of rookies and until it has veterans that are going to know enough and want to stand up for what they have it will be this way. You have about 10-15 teams that are really serious in a 60 car field.

I want to be, but I gonna finish my pit stop when I'm done eating.

Great post,I think you hit the nail right on the head! There are quite a few new people "rookies as you call them" to the sport that are racing UTV's and that is awesome and just what desert racing needed. They will learn by trial and error and this will all figure itself out like every other class has done. When you have a group of racers that have been racing UTV's for 20 years we will all look back on this time and chuckle. I do wish some of the young new people that are in the sport wouldn't have the "I've got this all figured out" mentallity and sit down and talk with some of the old timers that have been doing this for 30+ years. Instead of saying "oh you may have been racing buggies in the desert for 30 years but you dont know UTV's. There is a lot to learn from those Old Timers

 

[wireguy]

[QUOTE The utv is not an old 1600 motor that quit moving forward. ".[/QUOTE]

Just a little VW motor video, from Dave Folts Tranmissions, Dave and Daniel Folts are great guys and Daniel is one of the fastest guys in the desert. They are not only desert racers they happen to have a little VW dragster too. If you ever need any work on a transaxle these are your guys.

VW Class 12's battling it out at Laughlin RATR Daniel Folts view , everybody that just battled it out at the UTV World Championships can probably appreciate

 

[Brandon75173]

I for one never understood as long as you keep the frame geometrically within reasonable tolerance to the factory frame why you wouldn't build it from scratch. The sorry ass mig welds, 16 gauge Chinese steel tubing, and all the joints involved are a crap pedestal to build a "racecar" atop. You still have to use the fenders, hood, fascia, motor, trans, etc etc etc. Those are the parts that make the car. Not the piece of crap center frame section. Does it add expense? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how you source your parts. The way I have been hunting and buying used parts the last few months I don't think so. Especially if you can build the frame yourself. Which many of us would. I don't see any point or reason that would dictate a move like this would hurt relations with the manufacturers. Off the top of my head, my shop could probably build an RZR 1000 base DOM, mig welded frame, in volume, for around $2,500. Obviously tig welded 4130 would be a bit more. But it would/could be .095 wall with quality welds and much stronger suspension connection points. Not that I would care to do so, just making a point.

 

[BiggJim]

Where do you think 95% of the steel in the US comes from? I deal with all the large Steel suppliers and they will tell you straight up most of the material is imported.

We have been building and racing these polaris for a few years now and the main rail section we use is fine. We do minimal gusseting around the FCA pivot points but beyond that there is not alot we do to the main rail structure. The rule is the rule so that a guy dont build something in his garage that looks like a UTE but is just a fabricated chassis with a UTE engine. We could easily build a new main rail section.....but the rule that is there keeps if an even playing field for all teams.

 

[Brandon75173]

Where do you think 95% of the steel in the US comes from? I deal with all the large Steel suppliers and they will tell you straight up most of the material is imported.

We have been building and racing these polaris for a few years now and the main rail section we use is fine. We do minimal gusseting around the FCA pivot points but beyond that there is not alot we do to the main rail structure. The rule is the rule so that a guy dont build something in his garage that looks like a UTE but is just a fabricated chassis with a UTE engine. We could easily build a new main rail section.....but the rule that is there keeps if an even playing field for all teams.

No, 95% of steel is not from China. We have steel mills all around the US. Most of our larger jobs dictate only sourced steel to be domestic. I am sure you do deal with large suppliers. My company also does, we fabricate 3000+ tons per year. The 4130 we receive is from Germany. DOM is primarily domestic. ERW can be Mexican or domestic. Many of the various grades, like tubing polaris uses, have a lesser metallurgical composition than all listed previously. If I am wrong, then apologies to Polaris, but all wear and fatigue signs show of a low grade hot formed tube. I dont tell you all of this to measure dicks. I say this because it is relevant to the conversation, and more importantly safety and durability.