LMAO!!! Brother you know damn well no stock machine holds up to brutal race conditions...
warlock's XP1000 Consumer Buyer Watchdog Thread
- Thread starter warlock
- Start date
Dang Todd, lookout, the Polaris mafia is going to issue a hit on you....
Jim, I will agree that some obstacles will destroy any SXS, but I don't think this course is KOH tough. It would be interesting to see what obstacle(s) were causing the carnage... cause with 3 identical breaks you gotta ask, is it the obstacle, or is it the machine....
Comparing KOH to Short Course racing is no comparison. 99% of people breaking in KOH are doing so at less than 5mph.. Pinning their wheels in between rocks, snapping axles, pinching sidewalls, smashing arms on rocks, etc etc etc.
What was happening at Terracross is this.. The course is TIGHT, lots of sharp, hard, very deeply rutted turns which means wheels are cranked at FULL LOCK.. while these wheels are locked the guys are PINNED trying to RACE SXS against one another, diving into holes, smashing into rocks, logs, and one another.. The taller / heavier wheel tire combo doesn't help things here. Some pics you guys see are simple ball joint failures, some are half shafts breaking, and MANY are fully caused by COLLISIONS with rocks and one another. Some guys run out of talent, send the car into a barrel roll and break stuff.. You are seeing lots of carnage at these races because you got up to 15 guys in identical cars on a tiny course at the same time racing for TV exposure and all these guys are FAST! They are pushing these machines extremely hard.
While I am defending it, I will say, I would love to see a uni-ball set up from the factory. With that said, losing a ball joint can be an easy fix or it can also tear up a lot of other things.
What was happening at Terracross is this.. The course is TIGHT, lots of sharp, hard, very deeply rutted turns which means wheels are cranked at FULL LOCK.. while these wheels are locked the guys are PINNED trying to RACE SXS against one another, diving into holes, smashing into rocks, logs, and one another.. The taller / heavier wheel tire combo doesn't help things here. Some pics you guys see are simple ball joint failures, some are half shafts breaking, and MANY are fully caused by COLLISIONS with rocks and one another. Some guys run out of talent, send the car into a barrel roll and break stuff.. You are seeing lots of carnage at these races because you got up to 15 guys in identical cars on a tiny course at the same time racing for TV exposure and all these guys are FAST! They are pushing these machines extremely hard.
While I am defending it, I will say, I would love to see a uni-ball set up from the factory. With that said, losing a ball joint can be an easy fix or it can also tear up a lot of other things.
Chad Ragland, who drives our UTVUG XP1000 at Terracross literally sent me this text as I was typing my last response
Chad drives trophy trucks for a living.... lol
Chad drives trophy trucks for a living.... lol
Ball Joints are not build for off road racing...Most of these pics show wadded up a arms....most of the time that is from a ball joint letting go.
I catch what you are saying Joey, but remember, Mitch G has completed and won KOH several times in near stock machines. No, this isn't really comparable to KOH, but that is why I said it would be good to see what obstacles were breaking the XP's.
That said, I agree, tight courses are harder on ball joints and CVs than most other obstacles because of the severe angles being encountered on tight turns.
Not saying anything bad about the Polaris', just wondering why and what was happening. When I have a guy bring an XP to me and wants me to build it up for racing or fast desert, it's nice to know weak spots as well as strong areas. If the ball joint is weak (much like Arctic Cat Prowlers were/are), then that is good to know...
(time to go hide so the Polaris Mafia doesn't make a hit...hehehe)
I don't understand the Polaris Mafia thing.. I don't see very many people if any at all in this thread defending Polaris in an aggressive way. I am only trying to offer explanation as I was there and personally know MANY people driving these machines not to mention I have some pretty good seat time in them and most know, I'm not soft on machines..
I personally think that a guy like Mitch can race KOH and put less stress on a machine's suspension then a guy racing a 5 lap moto on a Terracross course. I say Mitch because he is smooth, knows when to go hard and when to slow down. At the end of the day, very few can say it was just the part that failed. In some way, especially in racing we are pushing these components beyond their designed purposes. Of course in some cases we aren't and some stuff just comes apart. But thats inherent in off-road. Doesn't matter if you own a RAPTOR or a GEISER Trophy Truck.. stuff fails..
You are right, the angles being put on these suspesnions is what's causing the failures. With that said, big wheels and tires compound the potential for a ball join failure.
FWIW, lots of RACERS snap ball joints on XP900's as well. If you plan to build one of these into a race machine then I would recommend chromoly arms and uni-balls. With that said, we never broke ball joints during the filming of XP1K on either of our 2 cars. We do have stronger arms that were built for it but we used the stock ball joints.
Also I should point out... no shock shaft failures that I saw at this weekends race. Most of the guys racing have the 7/8" rear shafts or stainless upgraded shafts put in.
I personally think that a guy like Mitch can race KOH and put less stress on a machine's suspension then a guy racing a 5 lap moto on a Terracross course. I say Mitch because he is smooth, knows when to go hard and when to slow down. At the end of the day, very few can say it was just the part that failed. In some way, especially in racing we are pushing these components beyond their designed purposes. Of course in some cases we aren't and some stuff just comes apart. But thats inherent in off-road. Doesn't matter if you own a RAPTOR or a GEISER Trophy Truck.. stuff fails..
You are right, the angles being put on these suspesnions is what's causing the failures. With that said, big wheels and tires compound the potential for a ball join failure.
FWIW, lots of RACERS snap ball joints on XP900's as well. If you plan to build one of these into a race machine then I would recommend chromoly arms and uni-balls. With that said, we never broke ball joints during the filming of XP1K on either of our 2 cars. We do have stronger arms that were built for it but we used the stock ball joints.
Also I should point out... no shock shaft failures that I saw at this weekends race. Most of the guys racing have the 7/8" rear shafts or stainless upgraded shafts put in.
Dang Joey, you've known me for how long and can't tell when I'm busting Polaris guys balls for fun...
I agree, Mitch must be an alien or something, he seems to levitate his RZRs over obstacles that destroy everyone else's...I would wager, give Mitch a Can Am or an Arctic Cat and he would still make everyone else look like amatuer hour...
It all boils down to this, every machine, whether Polaris, Can Am, Arctic Cat, Kawi or otherwise, has good and bad points. They all have their place. But what kills me is how defensive some certain brand owners become so protective, but yet attack other brands the second that they have a minor problem. (And no Joey, that doesn't include you 'cause I've never heard you attack any brand).
Me personally, I like Polaris RZR's. I have to admit, Polaris has done more to invigorate our sport than most any other. But I like Arctic Cat and Kawi too (even though it does get tiresome of hearing 50,000 Polaris owners try to prove how crappy AC or the others are).
My point being, they are all great machines, some perform better in certain areas than others. They all have faults and weaknesses. I want to learn what machine does what so that I can help my customers have better machines, whether they are RZRs, Can Ams or Arctic Cats...
Joey, I think you and I are on the same side, not trying to bust on ya brother.. (okay, maybe a little busting)
I agree, Mitch must be an alien or something, he seems to levitate his RZRs over obstacles that destroy everyone else's...I would wager, give Mitch a Can Am or an Arctic Cat and he would still make everyone else look like amatuer hour...
It all boils down to this, every machine, whether Polaris, Can Am, Arctic Cat, Kawi or otherwise, has good and bad points. They all have their place. But what kills me is how defensive some certain brand owners become so protective, but yet attack other brands the second that they have a minor problem. (And no Joey, that doesn't include you 'cause I've never heard you attack any brand).
Me personally, I like Polaris RZR's. I have to admit, Polaris has done more to invigorate our sport than most any other. But I like Arctic Cat and Kawi too (even though it does get tiresome of hearing 50,000 Polaris owners try to prove how crappy AC or the others are).
My point being, they are all great machines, some perform better in certain areas than others. They all have faults and weaknesses. I want to learn what machine does what so that I can help my customers have better machines, whether they are RZRs, Can Ams or Arctic Cats...
Joey, I think you and I are on the same side, not trying to bust on ya brother.. (okay, maybe a little busting
)
I don't know but they all do. The fule pump whine is kind of annoying but as long as its not failing I don't see it as a big deal. Remember the whine the rar ends of the Commander's produced? The crunching noise the Kawasaki's trans or diffs make, etc etc.. They all make noises.. hahaa
The rattle noise we are hearing in the front apparently is the drive shaft which is different in the 1000. It goes at an angle from engine to front diff and therefor there is a carrier bearing right below the drivers feet which is what you are hearing and feeling. So I have been told..
Dang Joey, you've known me for how long and can't tell when I'm busting Polaris guys balls for fun...
I agree, Mitch must be an alien or something, he seems to levitate his RZRs over obstacles that destroy everyone else's...I would wager, give Mitch a Can Am or an Arctic Cat and he would still make everyone else look like amatuer hour...
It all boils down to this, every machine, whether Polaris, Can Am, Arctic Cat, Kawi or otherwise, has good and bad points. They all have their place. But what kills me is how defensive some certain brand owners become so protective, but yet attack other brands the second that they have a minor problem. (And no Joey, that doesn't include you 'cause I've never heard you attack any brand).
Me personally, I like Polaris RZR's. I have to admit, Polaris has done more to invigorate our sport than most any other. But I like Arctic Cat and Kawi too (even though it does get tiresome of hearing 50,000 Polaris owners try to prove how crappy AC or the others are).
My point being, they are all great machines, some perform better in certain areas than others. They all have faults and weaknesses. I want to learn what machine does what so that I can help my customers have better machines, whether they are RZRs, Can Ams or Arctic Cats...
Joey, I think you and I are on the same side, not trying to bust on ya brother.. (okay, maybe a little busting
I understand and can take the ball busting, its not personal but I was just being upfront that I don't see a whole lot of Polaris defense going on here to merit the joke is all.
On my end I am simply offering explanation to try to help educate guys as best I can on info I can provide in regards to some of these issues.
This thread was originally 4 separate threads and I think you all can see why I would merge it.. imagine trying to go through all of these bash threads separately. Its not needed nor for those generally concerned would it be time efficient. Put all the beef in one easy to read place was my point. Its not the first nor last time we will condense threads.
I don't see a whole lot of Polaris guys BASHING on other machines here on UTVUnderground.com. I mean, banter between guys is going to happen, I know over the past X amount of years we have been live we have hosted some good debates and crap talking but overall there is very little "pro polaris" vehicle bashing ever going on over here. Don't hold what happens at other forums agains us? hahhahaah
LOL... that's cause most of the non-racer, non-RZR guys just stay quiet now so they don't stir up stuff...but you know me, I like to stir the pot up
So when you headed back out to the Moab area, we need to go bash some skidplates....
I spent the weekend with James Hill of IMG Motorsports racing the Terracross event at Haydays. James has raced WORCS, Monster Jam events, Grand Prix, Desert and now Terracross. He said nothing compares to the punishment of these tracks. Option lines, vertical faces, massive holes, bolders and huge jumps. Taking all this into account, I say the car performed great. The main event had 12 XP1000's running 36 to 40 seconds per lap for 14 laps. There is no time to get into a groove and save the car. You mash the skinny pedal and hope for the best. We broke a few sets of front axles, a rear axle and a clutch. Can we blame these failures on Polaris? The fact is machines fail. When you push something to its limits more things fail. The XP1000 class is bone stock. Purpose built race cars will prevent these things from happening by building the cars to survive. All in all we were very happy with the machine and the series.
hehehehehehehe Sorry I know, Jajajajaja Could not help my self. LMFAO.
I figured I would Stir a Little More , Not trying to break My Shit Stick. Hehehe. Seriously I should Explain more that a quick Blurb on some stuff . I Already stated I said Racing beats these poor Little Bastards in stock form. LOL Ohhh Well My Bad.....
Does anybody really keep these machines in stock form????
Next I suppose you are going to tell me that Santa Claus doesn't really exist....
Next I suppose you are going to tell me that Santa Claus doesn't really exist....
It seems we have moved fairly far from the intent/purpose of what we believe was the thread start.....and in doing so we have diminished the value of how important this type thread is:<?xml:namespace prefix = "o" ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
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The value of this thread on this forum cannot be understated or taken lightly......fact based issues/problems caught and talked about early will better serve and protect us as consumers.......while Polaris has been taking the bashing as of late I believe we can all attest to the fact from Yamaha to Can Am all OEM's have a history of difficulty swallowing unintended expensive product issues costs. Early detection, screening and defense by consumers tends to place higher responsibility on manufacturers, and remove their age old- insufficient number of units in field have demonstrated this condition, therefore it must be associated with operator misuse!<o></o>
<o></o>
With respect to the technical element so this thread we hope to offer a few comments in the hopes it helps new/current 1000 buyer/owners:<o></o>
<o></o>
1. Any noise, harmonic resonance or other emanating from a fuel system or unit should be cause for complete concern and immediate remedy by the manufacturer. Non negotiable. <o></o>
2. The discussed shock issue should also be of concern and resolved by the OEM so as to preclude a future fix being that of the owner buying a kit or upgrade from the shock supplier) The geometry should be looked at when considering longer shock/shaft travel and new mounting points......<o></o>
3. The ball joint pic was a bit unfair as this type of failure is common to racing when bigger motors, power steering and an unabated pathway to the first corner is muy importante.....what should be looked at on the stock raced units is what sourced content did Polaris choose for this stress area........??<o></o>
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While it is not my intent to bash or criticize fellow forum members, it is important for us to us this type of thread in particular at this key time to help others better understand how to protect themselves if major issues do in fact exist...for the limited warrantee clock is ticking.........more importantly it does appear that Warlock has some very real and pressing issues that this forum and our input may help him with........just trying to get us back on point.<o></o>
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B/R<o></o>
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Steve<o></o>
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></o>The value of this thread on this forum cannot be understated or taken lightly......fact based issues/problems caught and talked about early will better serve and protect us as consumers.......while Polaris has been taking the bashing as of late I believe we can all attest to the fact from Yamaha to Can Am all OEM's have a history of difficulty swallowing unintended expensive product issues costs. Early detection, screening and defense by consumers tends to place higher responsibility on manufacturers, and remove their age old- insufficient number of units in field have demonstrated this condition, therefore it must be associated with operator misuse!<o
></o><o
></o>With respect to the technical element so this thread we hope to offer a few comments in the hopes it helps new/current 1000 buyer/owners:<o
></o><o
></o>1. Any noise, harmonic resonance or other emanating from a fuel system or unit should be cause for complete concern and immediate remedy by the manufacturer. Non negotiable. <o
></o>2. The discussed shock issue should also be of concern and resolved by the OEM so as to preclude a future fix being that of the owner buying a kit or upgrade from the shock supplier) The geometry should be looked at when considering longer shock/shaft travel and new mounting points......<o
></o>3. The ball joint pic was a bit unfair as this type of failure is common to racing when bigger motors, power steering and an unabated pathway to the first corner is muy importante.....what should be looked at on the stock raced units is what sourced content did Polaris choose for this stress area........??<o
></o><o
></o>While it is not my intent to bash or criticize fellow forum members, it is important for us to us this type of thread in particular at this key time to help others better understand how to protect themselves if major issues do in fact exist...for the limited warrantee clock is ticking.........more importantly it does appear that Warlock has some very real and pressing issues that this forum and our input may help him with........just trying to get us back on point.<o
></o><o
></o>B/R<o
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></o>Steve<o
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> </o>Ok so Back on track. There is another Option available if you Feel like you got a bike $23000 bike stuffed in your rear end. A friend of ours is a Bad Ass Pitbull Lawyer and Biker so My Boy had a Problem with Can-Am and they were dragging there feet at solving a stupid Axle problem that would always bind and Break just driving it easy. So Chuck fired off a Nasty Demand Letter to Can Am and Based it on the Lemon Laws and a little Back and Forth crap and Guess what? They Got there butts in gear and replaced all of the front end and it was a Bent Spindle. They also gave him 2 year free extended warranty , free first 10 hr service($500 Value) free oil changes for 2 years, second set of tires when his originals are done. And now everyone is happy and riding again. So when in Doubt Pull your Lawyer out. LOL
Well let me start by saying, I come from ALL sorts of On and Off Road racing from UTV's to Indy to Class 1.... and I can say is, ALL machines can fail. It is about finding the car with the least amount of weak points of the one that has the easiest weak points to be addressed. We raced our Arctic Cat Wildcat all the way until these last 2 WORCS races and now we have decided to try out the new XP1000 for the last 2 rounds. The Wildcat worked great and can be a podium contender, but after many tries to fix little problems, we sacked up and are now dipping into the XP1000, and hoping there are less or no issues that will keep us from finishing a WORCS race.
I have already test drove and practiced with a couple XP1000's and they seem to really address the crucial areas that a racer needs... They now have the suspension the 900 lacked, the length of a Wildcat, better geometry for less "donkey punching"... lol... more HP's, tube chassis.
Don't get we wrong, because we do love the Wildcat too, but we also love racing more! I now this forum seems to be more of a Polaris site, but not true. UTVunderground tries their best to accomadate for the variety of UTV's and terrain they go on, but let's face it.... go to any races and see what finishes consistantly for people that like to drive to WIN!
Let's be real, if you buy a car for 20k OTD to go race or use even personally, who leaves everything as is? There are always areas that need help or improvements. Unless you use it as it is designed and just get your groceries... lol.
So far any issues I have heard or seen are very minor and are being addressed, compared to most others out there. The OEMs do their best to please a very diverse croud and do pretty well doing that. I love progress and Polaris has definately made the most progression this year! I can't wait to see what is in store for the future!
Follow us on Instagram @scranton_boys for the build and reviews on this new XP1000... good or bad reviews!
I have already test drove and practiced with a couple XP1000's and they seem to really address the crucial areas that a racer needs... They now have the suspension the 900 lacked, the length of a Wildcat, better geometry for less "donkey punching"... lol... more HP's, tube chassis.
Don't get we wrong, because we do love the Wildcat too, but we also love racing more! I now this forum seems to be more of a Polaris site, but not true. UTVunderground tries their best to accomadate for the variety of UTV's and terrain they go on, but let's face it.... go to any races and see what finishes consistantly for people that like to drive to WIN!
Let's be real, if you buy a car for 20k OTD to go race or use even personally, who leaves everything as is? There are always areas that need help or improvements. Unless you use it as it is designed and just get your groceries... lol.
So far any issues I have heard or seen are very minor and are being addressed, compared to most others out there. The OEMs do their best to please a very diverse croud and do pretty well doing that. I love progress and Polaris has definately made the most progression this year! I can't wait to see what is in store for the future!
Follow us on Instagram @scranton_boys for the build and reviews on this new XP1000... good or bad reviews!