Yamaha Yamaha YXZ 1000 Chronicles?

[badassmav]

I am curious on how many of you out there have, like me, have purchased the new Yamaha YXZ. The deposit has been paid, and I should be taking delivery in a few short weeks. My mind has been working overtime on how far I will go on the suspension mods. I will most likely be giving it the BAM treatment. Front steer, shock re-location, max width, etc. All of the goodies that made The Monstermav invincible in the rough, and durable enough to mercilessly and reliably thrash the car from start to finish, all season long.

I plan to develop a kit that can turn the stock suspension into something truly special, and would like your input as to what you'd like to see. Features you feel are important to your needs and budget. So, please chime in and let me know how many of you plan to seriously race, or just want to play in the dunes with suspension upgrades that will make your ride a much smoother and safer one.
-Does bump steer concern you?
-Do you feel you really need 18"-20" of reliable wheel travel?
-Do you ride for hours on end and want your shocks to last the journey without any fading or overheating?
-Would you like to run 30" tires? 32" tires?
-Do you mind performing some minor mod's to your frame to accommodate a "bolt-on" suspension package?
It's an open book at this point.

I have not yet decided if I want to take vehicles in for mod's, or if I will be offering only bolt on kits. I am currently, and gainfully employed, and do not have the square footage to offer such services at this time. I will say that I have aligned my self with a friend (a "Moneybags" of sorts), and to assure quality and UN-obstructed progress we have acquired all of the state of the art equipment necessary to fabricate top quality components in house, CNC cutting table included. Since I will be performing and/or overseeing all of the labor, you can be assured that proper manufacturing disciplines like material selection and post welding treatment will be followed by the book.

Who knows, I may choose to turn this into another Chronicle of sorts, sharing the hows and why's with all who care to learn. One thing is for sure, like before, this thread is not only for me, but for every one to participate in discussion and opinion, and two things are for certain, it will be an entertaining read, and I will have the baddest Yammy in all the land!

 

[Kalop]

Seems like cart before the horse.... you need a problem before you develop a solution, no?

I'd think you'd want to test machine completely stock ... put Marc in it even if it's "for fun" and just see what starts to fail and break. That'd be my starting point.. what is consumer going to encounter as common failure points? The racers?

Sub'd. Very cool your working on this. I loved the mav thread.

 

[madviking]

Yes please. I'll likely add one to the stable in a year or so.

My early thoughts, if you want them?

I believe the gear box and clutch have an oil pump and are pressure fed lube. An oil to air cooler and filter sound like a no brainer to me.

The engine appears to be version of the Genesis Series. There are three previous versions, a 973cc 120+ hp carbureted unit, and two EFI 1049cc units, which are very close in tune. One is a 130hp unit, the other pushes 138hp (Nytro and Viper). All were/are used heavily in the snowmobile line for the last 10 years. I have, somewhere, the factory Yamaha race "tricks" for the Nytro engine, they push output to 150hp. Will they apply to the hot weather and gear drive?

An oil to air engine oil cooler will be a good idea.

These have an excellent dry sump system that was purpose built for off road conditions.

Very much looking forward to what you come up with.

 

[CSG]

My opinion may not count much as I can't use anything over 65" width but anyway:

Yes I care ALOT about bumpsteer. More so for how it effects turning as it will typically induce an understeer type situation as the outside corner compresses and the wheel toes-out.

Wheel travel, personally I like a lot of droop for my type of racing so as much wheel travel as the CV can safely support. I do a lot of turning so I need the tires to have some contact with the ground when possible.

1 hour races for me

30's to race and 32's to play

Frame mods are fine for me but for most people I would bet they are a turn-off.

 

[Blue Coyote]

SUBSCRIBED! to a future classic thread.
Plan is for an XZY next spring.
Racing - short, medium, WORCS style and maybe some "smaller" desert races. No SCORE. / BITD yet.

From what I have seen / watched/ read, hear are initial observations from the Internet.

Your business plan - you need to be the genius of design, there are lots of resources to do the "making". Make it bolt on and for the DIY crowd. There will be plenty of mega $ builds. Make your product like Bad Asses and functional vs bling. Sell it as bare steel - let the buyer chose their color, powder coating is easy to have done anywhere.

Potential products:
Front chassis brace
Real dual rate springs & valving.
Trans oil cooler
Bolt on cage w/ B pillar brace
Stout holder.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Whattha]

I think I'm definitely going to jump ship from my maverick to the yamaha, BUT I'm gonna wait until the second offering. I also believe a true revalve and dual rate spring package is in order. I would love to see some mid travel suspension packages as well.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[badassmav]

Seems like cart before the horse.... you need a problem before you develop a solution, no?

I'd think you'd want to test machine completely stock ... put Marc in it even if it's "for fun" and just see what starts to fail and break. That'd be my starting point.. what is consumer going to encounter as common failure points? The racers?

Sub'd. Very cool your working on this. I loved the mav thread.

It is a given that production rear steer cars can not cycle through the travel without bump steer. Excessive, in most cases. Also, just one peek at the front view of the car reveals a shock motion ratio no higher than .57 or so. With geometry like this, the cart will barely make it in front of the horse! It needs massaging for sure.

 

[Kalop]

It is a given that production rear steer cars can not cycle through the travel without bump steer. Excessive, in most cases. Also, just one peek at the front view of the car reveals a shock motion ratio no higher than .57 or so. With geometry like this, the cart will barely make it in front of the horse! It needs massaging for sure.

So glad your doing this thread / build. Love your knowledge Reid and willingness to share.

So maybe that's why we're seeing this out of the box. LOL

Thanks again.. I'm in market for Yamaha for 2017.

 

[jajl22]

I love reading these threads from you BAM and usually learn a lot.

I am just your average consumer, follow racing but don't race, have enough technical knowledge to be dangerous but don't technically know everything i am doing haha!

I plan on buying a YXZ after the holidays when all the colors are available and the big rush is over.

My personal opinion:
Bumpsteer does not concern most (me), and most probably don't even know what it is.
Do i need 18"-20" of wheel travel "No" probably just need a shock tune set up to my style of riding.
If i am going to buy a long travel kit do i want to hear those numbers YES!!!
I feel like i ride for hours on end and my shocks are always hot when i touch them, probably because they are set up wrong for my style of riding.
What i truly probably do is ride for 30 - 45 mins which feels like a couple of hours and then stop to eat, drink and BS with my buddies.
Would like to be able to run 30" tires especially paddles for the dunes.
I wouldn't mind cutting brackets off, drilling holes, or grinding for clearances a bit, but i do not want to have to weld in order to put the kit on.

raw arm option so i can pick my color or save money and just rattle can it for the time being would be cool. Most of the time the arms look like a work of art after welding anyway raw.

Maybe 2 systems? the general public system and the hardcore race type system?

I do also think it would be nice to be able to use the factory shocks just maybe with a revalve and dual spring set up or something of that nature.

I do write this with a bit of sarcasm but i think your over estimating the average consumer of these long travel kits, I know with your background and the work you did on the BAM race car that there would be no question your system would flat out work right!!!

 

[utvpros]

Another badassmav chronicles looking forward to reading.

 

[kmb760]

Would a shock tower up front to change the angle and leverage of suspension be OK in the racing world like BITD

 

[badassmav]

Would a shock tower up front to change the angle and leverage of suspension be OK in the racing world like BITD

My objective in addressing the upper front shock mounts would most likely be to design a retrofit that picks up the stock mounts, and attaches at an additional 2-3 places. It would also utilize an obvious crossbar to tie in the shock towers. I will have no choice but to stroke a longer shock. I'm not aiming for the market where you keep most of your original componentry. After all, that's what made the car suck in the first place!

 

[dmcmark]

As with any brand beefing up the suspension and getting the right shock tune will be key. I think i'm more interested in the outcome of running larger tires. Hope someone is thinking about gear ratios and HD clutch packs.
Regards,

 

[Glamisfan]

I am sooo subscribed to this!!!

To answer your questions:
Bump steer is somewhat of a concern to me. But to the average consumer I don't think it is of any concern.

I was bummed that it only has 16 and 17 inches of travel. I had seen enough people post that it had 20 so I was kind of hoping for that. So long travel on it with 20 or 21 would be awesome!

I ride very hard but I've never noticed my shocks fading. I do get them a hot but usually ride 45 minutes straight so not a big deal.

30" tires should've been standard and that's what I think a lot of people will go with including myself.

I don't mind minor or major mods to make something work. But 99% of the consumers would mind I think.

Even though I know it would be hard for you to do, I would suggest making two kits. One for the hard-core person with enough money to buy new shocks. And another kit where the original shocks can be reused with just a revalve and respring.

 

[badassmav]

Yes please. I'll likely add one to the stable in a year or so.

My early thoughts, if you want them?

I believe the gear box and clutch have an oil pump and are pressure fed lube. An oil to air cooler and filter sound like a no brainer to me.

The engine appears to be version of the Genesis Series. There are three previous versions, a 973cc 120+ hp carbureted unit, and two EFI 1049cc units, which are very close in tune. One is a 130hp unit, the other pushes 138hp (Nytro and Viper). All were/are used heavily in the snowmobile line for the last 10 years. I have, somewhere, the factory Yamaha race "tricks" for the Nytro engine, they push output to 150hp. Will they apply to the hot weather and gear drive?

An oil to air engine oil cooler will be a good idea.

These have an excellent dry sump system that was purpose built for off road conditions.

Very much looking forward to what you come up with.

Boy MV, you sound as well versed with the R1 engine as I am with chassis' and suspensions. Yes, your opinion is very valuable and welcome information to me, for I'm an idiot when it comes to engines! Of course, my mechanical inclination allows me to troubleshoot, and even tear down and reassemble an engine if needed (only if I have a manual for a guide), but when I claim to "know" about something, that means I have a wealth of knowledge AND experience in said field. I don't give advice on things that I don't truly know.
Being the engine is already a dry sump configuration, I would say that it is probably safe to add the additional oil cooler and filter. I didn't feel good about it on the XP 1000, but that's because I felt the additional plumbing, and more importantly, the "upstream" location of an aftermarket oil cooler was asking too much from the stock internal oil pump. I'd imagine with the R1 already having external plumbing, that the pump is designed for the extra volume, and possible head pressure if the cooler is higher than the pump. Does the system have an external booster pump of any kind? Thanks by the way, for participating.

 

[badassmav]

My opinion may not count much as I can't use anything over 65" width but anyway:

Yes I care ALOT about bumpsteer. More so for how it effects turning as it will typically induce an understeer type situation as the outside corner compresses and the wheel toes-out.

Wheel travel, personally I like a lot of droop for my type of racing so as much wheel travel as the CV can safely support. I do a lot of turning so I need the tires to have some contact with the ground when possible.

1 hour races for me

30's to race and 32's to play

Frame mods are fine for me but for most people I would bet they are a turn-off.

CSG, your opinion, and all others for that matter, are welcomed here. If you race a UTV in the dirt, we both have a lot in common.

I was just curious on what brand of UTE you are racing that the front outside tire toes out when compressed? Unless it's an Arctic Cat, any rear steer car I've worked on to date always toes in when bumping. Typically, rear steers toe in while bumping, and front steers toe out while bumping, hence the static toe out settings on the XP 1000. The problem with a rear steer configuration is that it is very difficult to achieve both good ackermann steering and bump steer characteristics simultaneously. This is due to the fact that where the outer tie rod end needs to be located to achieve good ackermann characteristics, makes for a tie rod length too short to realize low to no bump steer. By all means, fill me in if your setup proves otherwise.

About the larger tires, I have concerns on the reliability of the transmission running tires larger than 29". They deliver a car they know is going to compete in the pro 1900 class, yet they sell it with only 27" tires. The ads call 12.9" of ground clearance "respectable", but I beg to differ. With 16"+ of wheel travel, that number should be closer to 14", and can be if one wants to sacrifice droop travel to get it. That (tire diameter) is a big red flag for me. The fact that there is a clutching upgrade available from the dealer tells us something. I think 32" tires have no credibility as of yet in our class, until which time they can be ran in numbers, in a racing environment, to gather data. Thanks for posting!

 

[madviking]

Happy to help here, and thanks for the welcome. I've playing with this engine since 2005.

There is no external pump in this setup. The pump is inside the engine, though relatively easily accessible by removing the oil pan. Here's the layout, which you are likely familiar with, but I'll put it out there so everyone can enjoy... There are two pick up points and two scavenge pumps which then share a single bypass valve. The oil is then pumped through the factory oil cooler, which is an oil to coolant type, and from there, the oil is fed to the oil tank. This cooler placement eliminates potential pressure loss issues that could occur by having the cooler after the high pressure oil pump... quite important at 10,000 rpm. The tank then supplies the lovely cooled oil to the high pressure pump, which of course has its own bypass valve, then through the filter and on to the engine. On the snowmobiles, the oil tank has an oil level sensor, and a auto shut down if oil pressure is lost. I suspect the R1 will have this, also.

Being that you are building a racer for the desert, the factory oil cooler unit could be replaced or supplemented by an oil to air piece. The bypassed oil could also be run through a cooler, though that's a bit more involved in getting it out of the engine and to a cooler. Ideally, we should test to see if needed, but I suspect it will for max performance.

Your concerns about the transmission are the same as mine... and the first step to keeping it alive is to keep that lube cool. With a little luck, the larger tires will just give increased top speed.

Anyone have transmission and axle ratios?

 

[Glamisfan]

No ratios or max speed in each gear available yet. Judging by the size of the trans and Yamaha build quality, I would think the trans is plenty strong. The small axles are what have me worried! I would want to turbo it and run 30" tires. I'm gonna hold off on purchasing till I see real world results of people running larger tires. I'm also still real concerned about the lack of a low range.

 

[tatum]

Hey Reid, how long do you think these mods are going to take you to get to production?

 

[madviking]

Oh, and by R1, I'm assuming you are referring to the YXZ 1000R? Or the engine?