Should BITD Have Let Max Gordon (8yr Old) Race??

[It'sYourLegacy]

Please dont feed the trolls!

Thank you.
Your only input in to this conversation, your reputation (Hans Solo - 2009 UTV Baja 500 & 1000 Winner - UTVU) and your obvious stake in this sport's legacy...pretty much sums up the heart and soul of most (not all) class 1900 racers.
May God be with all of you (especially the intentionally victimized and their families) as upcoming insincere condolences are both 'mouthed' and meaninglessly handed out.

 

[fortune46x]

Hmm, my research says differently. The Artic Cat web site says the car isn't available until November.

https://www.arcticcat.com/dirt/side-by-sides/model/2017-en-wildcat-x-limited/

They're at dealers now , They were going down the line weeks before the Release at SSS - a local dealer has one , substantial improvement over the 5 link setup.

What I am curious about is the 3 Arctic cats setup for the 2900 class for the baja 1000..

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

"..What I am curious about is the 3 Arctic cats setup for the 2900 class for the baja 1000..

..'me too'..anything to purposely kill this topic/turn the talk around (or better yet kill the conversation entirely) so that racer 'safety' or even 'age' isn't so much focused on nor manufacturers/sponsors (now) held responsible absent participant outrage.

This thread will someday become an easily researchable study of "How to Kill Any Conversation of Consequence 101".

 

[CSG]

Post #60, last sentence...

So am I reading this correctly? I am now going to hell because an 8yr old raced a UTV? Please tell me that I am mis-interpreting this...

 

[fortune46x]

..'me too'..anything to purposely kill this topic/turn the talk around (or better yet kill the conversation entirely) so that racer 'safety' or even 'age' isn't so much focused on nor manufacturers/sponsors (now) held responsible absent participant outrage.

This thread will someday become an easily researchable study of "How to Kill Any Conversation of Consequence 101".

You're talking about bending rules... I bring that up in the same context.. but hey thats cool. Outrage on buddy..

Post #60, last sentence...

So am I reading this correctly? I am now going to hell because an 8yr old raced a UTV? Please tell me that I am mis-interpreting this...

I think you're spot on. Hey at least with the rest of us on this thread you'll have good company there.

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

You're talking about bending rules... I bring that up in the same context.. but hey thats cool. Outrage on buddy..

We've been talking about breaking (not bending) safety rules already on the books and an 8-year old doing the impossible.
If you can keep somebody speaking the truth to continually keep framing the questions (Joey's) you will keep the truth from being told (nice try).

Post #60, last sentence...
So am I reading this correctly? I am now going to hell because an 8yr old raced a UTV? Please tell me that I am mis-interpreting this...

It's Y(our) Legacy and a power greater than ours to judge when the time comes.

 

[fortune46x]

We've been talking about breaking (not bending) safety rules already on the books and an 8-year old doing the impossible.
If you can keep somebody speaking the truth to continually keep framing the questions (Joey's) you will keep the truth from being told (nice try).



It's Y(our) Legacy and a power greater than ours to judge when the time comes.

Not impossible.. kid did it, and did it well.

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

Not impossible.. kid did it, and did it well.

...and it's that simple.

My oh my...but to only possess the clear vision of a sun/sunsets-always-in-your-face 'romantic' west coaster.

Joey's (avoided) question was clear:

How about a whole roster full of 5,6,7 year old racers with parents wealthy enough to field even a 'properly' equipped car...or better yet...a whole roster full of ONLY the wealthy...of all ages?

Could this be the 'next' goal of BITD/UVTRA through using the (Socialist) extremely effective tactic of "never let a manufactured crisis go to waste"...in (soon) demanding that EVERYBODY qualify at (even) great(er) expense...to (finally) thin out the mere 'peons' in class 1900 racing who have hardscrabble dedicated themselves to actually building the sport of UTV desert racing..on a (family) budget?

 

[XPirate]

Papa Bear?

 

[BiggJim]

Papa Bear?

Ive been wandering this since this guy came to utvug.

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

I took the time to research "Papa Bear" (here) and have come to the conclusion that many of you evidently do not appreciate the courage that it took to post this thread in the first place.

The next time that you see the OP in person (I have never met or spoken with the man in any manner and have even argued the urgency of these same points with him for years)...
...why don't you take him aside and simply say "thank you" for bringing up what every single one of us on here knows is desperately needed.

Rag on or even threaten 'me' all that you would like.

Give credit where credit is due elsewhere.

 

[BiggJim]

i took the time to research "Papa Bear" (here) and have come to the conclusion that many of you evidently do not appreciate the courage that it took to post this thread in the first place.

The next time that you see the OP in person (I have never met or spoken with the man in any manner and have even argued the urgency of these same points with him for years)...
...why don't you take him aside and simply say "thank you" for bringing up what every single one of us on here knows is desperately needed.

Rag on or even threaten 'me' all that you would like.

Give credit where credit is due elsewhere.

I dont think that was a rag or a threat sir.....just an observation.

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

It wasn't taken as one

I dont think that was a rag or a threat sir.....just an observation.

It wasn't taken as one. You reference (in agreement) a previous member who has threatened the OP with legal action and further implied that this very person might indeed be me.

I replied that but a few of you even give Joey credit for starting this thread in the first place or (frankly) giving a rip as to where this sport is heading in terms of safety and (allowable) future product development.

Again, I could care less what anyone thinks, feels or says.

I'm old enough to have first-hand witnessed what happened (carnage) in the 80's/90's while those pulling the strings/'profiting' now (obviously) have no clue.

 

[fortune46x]

It wasn't taken as one


It wasn't taken as one. You reference (in agreement) a previous member who has threatened the OP with legal action and further implied that this very person might indeed be me.

I replied that but a few of you even give Joey credit for starting this thread in the first place or (frankly) giving a rip as to where this sport is heading in terms of safety and (allowable) future product development.

Again, I could care less what anyone thinks, feels or says.

I'm old enough to have first-hand witnessed what happened (carnage) in the 80's/90's while those pulling the strings/'profiting' now (obviously) have no clue.

First Bold : no one discredited, bashed, or put down Joey, he was looking for a constructive conversation and peoples opinions on the matter which most gave. Most if not all agreed on the safety of the questions.

Second Bold : You clearly do care what everyone thinks as you've argued with everyone that's stated their opinions , feelings or otherwise. You've said your piece then argued with anyone that doesn't agree with it or has something to add on to it.

 

[XPirate]

It wasn't taken as one


It wasn't taken as one. You reference (in agreement) a previous member who has threatened the OP with legal action and further implied that this very person might indeed be me.

I replied that but a few of you even give Joey credit for starting this thread in the first place or (frankly) giving a rip as to where this sport is heading in terms of safety and (allowable) future product development.

Again, I could care less what anyone thinks, feels or says.

I'm old enough to have first-hand witnessed what happened (carnage) in the 80's/90's while those pulling the strings/'profiting' now (obviously) have no clue.

Man O Man, you might want to check your facts, I, for one am an old friend of "papa bear" I know his son and his family. I have NEVER threatened the OP or anyone with legal action... I asked a question, I haven't heard from him in a long time. You obviously have more time to keep going on, but you should watch what you imply....

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

To XPirate:
#1..you and your 'buddy' (BiggJimm) just jumped in to this thread dragging whoever this "Papa Bear" is AND his reputation through the dirt for whatever reason.

#2..Nobody ever accused you of saying ANYTHING about 'Joey' (period).

Here is a reminder of how the conversation 'went' less the two of you bringing up this man's name (negatively) out of thin air for whatever reason:

(XPirate): "..I dont think that was a rag or a threat sir.....just an observation...."

(IYL):
"It wasn't taken as one. You reference (in agreement) a previous member who has threatened the OP with legal action and further implied that this very person might indeed be me..."

(XPirate):Man O Man, you might want to check your facts, I, for one am an old friend of "papa bear" I know his son and his family. I have NEVER threatened the OP or anyone with legal action... I asked a question, I haven't heard from him in a long time. You obviously have more time to keep going on, but you should watch what you imply....[/QUOTE]

(Joey; referring to Papa Bear OVER 4 YEARS AGO):

Edit: (Hours later)
I have deleted what Joey said 4 years ago as I believe that neither of them care anyways. I posted his quote to illustrate the fact that any former member named "Papa Bear" hasn't posted here in over 4 years, swore that he never would and that any legal action ever spoken of did not originate in this thread. Here is what started it all:

XPirate believing (declaring) that I am somebody named "Papa Bear" (today):
"Papa Bear?"

Another poster's immediate response:

Ive been wandering this since this guy came to utvug.

​

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

First Bold : no one discredited, bashed, or put down Joey, he was looking for a constructive conversation and peoples opinions on the matter which most gave. Most if not all agreed on the safety of the questions.

You're right. Two guys came on here and dragged somebody else's name through the dirt for no reason whatsoever.

2nd Bold : You clearly do care what everyone thinks as you've argued with everyone that's stated their opinions , feelings or otherwise. You've said your piece then argued with anyone that doesn't agree with it or has something to add on to it.

You're right...I don't care what anybody thinks until they FALSELY claim that I have disparaged people that I don't even know, have even mentioned or have clearly at least 'tried' to support for doing the right thing.

2nd rule of Socialists (straight from Alinsky's Rules for Radicals):

Spread lies just as much as possible to shut down any conversation of consequence despite any proof otherwise.

You guys have obviously read the book.
ewtn wolf in sheep's clothing you tube

 

[XPirate]

Again, I, myself, asked 1 question... if it was him, he could pm me... I'm not here to drag anyone through the dirt. You made mention of threats that were not from me. I can defend myself, please read posts carefully as people can quote each other. Yes, I know bigjim, but he's more of an acquaintance, I say hi at the offroad shiws and races, he probably has no idea who I am. Your vocab and redirect are similar to my old friends, so I asked if it was you... Maybe you read too much into it, maybe not? I only knew the man from forums and went on a couple rdies with the guy. I see his son from time to time and say hi. Just like all discussion, you only get what you want out of it. Im not here to change you mind or prove a point, Joey asked for opinions and I regret my 1st post wasn't answers to his questions, my 2nd was, and the latter have been trying to figure out wth????

 

[sand shark]

Papa Bear?

I was thinking the same thing. LOL!

 

[bdk]

Legacy, you certainly make some valid points and I commend you for trying to keep this thread focused on the topic and what you feel the real issues are. You are clearly educated and well written and you seem to have a wealth of experience and I believe the sport would benefit from it. With that being said, if you want to actually be heard you need to stop attacking EVERY reply to this thread. I am not a racer and probably have no business posting here but I feel, much like you, that decisions made on this issue may have far reaching consequences that could potentially effect the entire industry including me being able to recreate with my family. Participant safety is certainly something that needs to be discussed but I think you're arguing with the wrong people. You're purpose would be better served if you took your concerns directly to the people who make the regulations instead of attacking people on public forums. I see that you are trying to make a difference and you feel very strongly about the issue and I respect that but it's not likely that you will gain any support for your cause by trying to bully people into agreeing with you. You have repeatedly criticized racers for not voicing their opinion here but everytime someone does you just condemn them for their comment. If you want this to be a productive conversation, and clearly you do, you need to back off a little. Please stop stifling the conversations.

Thank you