What's going to grow this sport? (UTV)

warlock

Wanna Go Fast? - UTVUnderground Approved
Jan 23, 2009
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az
What can help grow the Sport is when we get a new President and the Economy takes off.
But as this sport has grown so have the regulations so more people in the sport means more Laws to. So I start thinking I don't want more growth. Just Thinking out loud.
 

NIKAL

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2012
970
310
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A few have touched on what it's going to take to grow the SXS market & the off road industry as a whole. The rest are only thinking about what would make the SXS industry better for them.

You want to see & protect the sport?

We need all the SXS manufactures to pool together and hire lawyers & lobbyist to go to Washinton and speak for us, get congress & senitors to support us. This is what the enviormentalist do. This is what the NRA & the Unions do. This is where we are failing big time and it will be our demise. Each dealer, aftermart supplier should be donating a % each month to the Lobbyist Org hired. We as consumers need to step up and join these Orgs. We need to donate to these campaigns, we need to find out which people running for office support our cause. If they don't support, we get the word out to not vote for them.

The only way we grow the UTV industry is to protect and fight to keep our open public land that is ours. The citizens ou the United States of America!

You would think the UTV manufactures would see this! But I think they too are afriad of the big bad enviormentalist and what they will do to them if they make to much noise. Their afraid of their bottom lines & profits. So they will ride the wave and take our money. When the well is dry and the land is gone, they will move on to the next recreational craze.
 

JoeyD23

#utvunderground
Jan 9, 2009
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I keep seeing comments about the cost of new machines being too much. Companies like Polaris have options other than the xp1000. They still make RZR800, 570 and the tried and true RZR-S! The Kawasaki T4 can be had for around $14-15k. Can-Am still has the Commander 800!

Point is, don't complain that the new machines are too expensive when there are plenty of machines already available that are priced affordably. Sure you may not be getting the latest and greatest but that's the way it is no matter what you are buying. Cars, trucks, electronics, etc.. It's all the same. I'm not going to complain to Sony that their 80" TV is too expensive. I'm just going to buy the 55" cause that's what I can afford.
 

Rokitman

UTVUnderground La Familia
Mar 11, 2013
909
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Nipomo, CA
I agree with most of what's been said. Affordable racing is a misnomer since it really doesn't exist, but some racing is cheaper than others. For what it would cost to buy a UTV and prep it for racing is still considerably more than what it would cost me to build a mini stock or hobby stock and race at the local oval track, and these cars can be used for several seasons. So racing is one way to expose more people to our sport but it is a niche market compared to those of us who ride for the sheer pleasure of it, and not for competition.
That being said, I knew nothing of UTVs when I bought mine. I just cant ride a motorcycle anymore and just took a chance buying my RZR hoping it would be fun. Oh hell yes it's fun and I let folks know about it. I tell everyone I meet the fun of romping around off road in these toys and invite them to ride with me. I even let folks drive mine (with me in the passenger seat) so they can experience it themselves. Doing video is a great way to show people the fun of what we do. I have two friends now that have bought a UTV because of me exposing them to it.
The key to growth is targeting the larger market of pleasure riders. I ride every weekend, mostly by myself, but the group rides are what I really look forward to and have had great ones with La Famila and others. More coverage of group rides will go farther in my opinion than racing.
 

Rusty5150

UTVUG PHOTOG
Jan 9, 2009
3,527
332
83
A good friend of mine recently bought a XP1000 4 Seater. He called me to complain about the price. He said I bought a Rhino for $10k in 2005. What the hell happened to affordable UTV's. I asked him if he had priced out a new diesel truck lately. For around $75k you can get a top of the line diesel. So for $23k I don't think a top of the line UTV is crazy.


Here is a good example.
2005 Rhino $11,500 OTD
Long Travel $4500
Seats $650
Cage $1500
Doors $700
CDI box $375
Total Cost $19,225
$174.77 per MPH per person.
For 2 people and a top speed of 55mph down hill.

2014 XP1K4 $24,000 OTD
Has Long Travel $0
Has seats $0
Nice factory cage $0
Has doors $0
Does not need CDI $0
Will carry 4 adults and perform.
$80 per MPH per person.

The value is built into the machine.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

dkiewicz

Space Cadet - UTVUnderground's La Familia
Nov 28, 2009
1,582
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Hesperia Ca
You would think the UTV manufactures would see this! But I think they too are afriad of the big bad enviormentalist and what they will do to them if they make to much noise. Their afraid of their bottom lines & profits. So they will ride the wave and take our money. When the well is dry and the land is gone, they will move on to the next recreational craze.
Oh they'll see it, when the congress enacts legislation that makes it impossible for the buying public to use these vehicles economically, they'll see it! When folks stop shelling out the bucks for these because they can't ride them anywhere near their homes and have to spend 2,3,4 or $500 to do it, it will get their attention.

I agree with everything you said Todd, but truth be told, it's no different now than it ever was and nothing is going to change. You can't get enough people off their collectives asses to address these issues. We have the elietest folks running this country and we, the real people, don't freakin matter. We are disposable liabilities in their eyes. Unless you can put a substantial amount of money in a Cayman Islands bank account for someone, you're a non-starter.

The only power we have is where and on what we spend our money. The Trilateralists have this world by the sack and nothings going to change that.:(
 

Jeff Knoll

Carrera Performance
Oct 20, 2010
206
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We need all the SXS manufactures to pool together and hire lawyers & lobbyist to go to Washinton and speak for us, get congress & senitors to support us. This is what the enviormentalist do. This is what the NRA & the Unions do. This is where we are failing big time and it will be our demise. Each dealer, aftermart supplier should be donating a % each month to the Lobbyist Org hired. We as consumers need to step up and join these Orgs. We need to donate to these campaigns, we need to find out which people running for office support our cause. If they don't support, we get the word out to not vote for them.

The only way we grow the UTV industry is to protect and fight to keep our open public land that is ours. The citizens ou the United States of America!

You would think the UTV manufactures would see this! But I think they too are afriad of the big bad enviormentalist and what they will do to them if they make to much noise. Their afraid of their bottom lines & profits. So they will ride the wave and take our money. When the well is dry and the land is gone, they will move on to the next recreational craze.

I totally agree.

The big manufactures have done this with ROHVA. As far as the aftermarket we have ORBA. I have been working hard with ORBA the last three years now, almost 4 come to think of it. Our strategic plan is budgeting to hire the Livingston Group in DC full time. We have a full time retainer for Lobbying in California currently. We have been working on a plan to completely overhaul the entire OHV access model under a single umbrella over the next two years. The ultimate goal is to have an office and staff in DC full time.

I failed trying to organize the UTV user groups under the ISA, they just don't seem to want to be organized. That's not completely odd since most OHV people are fairly apathetic.

FWIW we are hosting a land use summit during the Silver State Jamboree to discuss how to get this done.


Best way to grow this sport? Everyone of us needs to be an ambassador to the UTV industry. Support those that are supporting the industry when you buy stuff. You can see who is out there supporting events and racing, so support them back.
 

Bajaxp

SXS Racer Extraordinaire - UTVUnderground Approved
Jan 21, 2010
1,597
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OC
Good topic, but I think the scope needs to be defined. 'Grow this sport (UTV)' is VERY broad. Are we trying to address the hunting market? Mud? Pure utility? Plus there is an amazing number of customers who justify a UTV for work, yet want to play with it several times a year. Or are we just talking pure recreation UTVs?

1st: to point at the 'manufacturers' and imply that they are not doing enough on the political and land use fronts is comical. I know first hand of the millions that are spent doing these exact things. From supporting ROHVA, ORBA, Blue Ribbon Coalition, the ASA, to working with state and local governments to keep land open. Keep in mind that 'everybody' seems to have their hand out and the OEM's have to choose their battles very carefully where they will have the most impact. Yamaha has their 'trails' program and Polaris has their 'grant and aide' program to support opening and maintaining trails and riding areas. And don't forget that there are legal issues with an OEM supporting a PAC. But the employees of a certain large UTV manufacturer are actually writing personal checks our of their own pockets to support PACS in Washington that in turn support our cause(s). This isn't reimbursed by their employer and if it is an individual contribution it is completely legal. That is going pretty far to support the sport. So I honestly believe that the OEM's are supporting the sport on many levels, but they can't do it all. Where I am disappointed is that the dealers and the aftermarket companies don't do more collectively. Don't get me wrong, some are very active local issues, clubs and land use, but the majority do nothing. Finally, we riders need to be careful who we are pointing fingers at. You have to ask yourselves, how many letters have you written in the last year to your congressman? How many checks have you written in the last year supporting the ASA, Blue Ribbon, etc? How many trash bags of litter have you hauled out of Glamis, Dumont, etc that some goon left? If you have done all of these things then I commend you. If not, just remember, when you point your finger there are three fingers pointing back at you!

2nd: As Joey and Rusty have previously stated, there ARE lower cost UTV alternatives to a XP1000 and there should be. And quite honestly there are a lot of people that don't have the skills to drive a 107 hp UTV, just like they probably shouldn't ride a GSXR 1000 that has 180 hp. They should get a RZR S or a Comm 800. Lower priced, yet still fun and it will allow them to work up to the faster models over time as their skills get better. I have personally witnessed how the 'horsepower war' or displacement war hurt the snowmobile market, the PWC market and the ATV market. For example in the mid-90's you could get two PWC's and a trailer for $12k-$14k. They would go mid-40 mph and were a lot of fun. But top speed, horsepower and the four stroke thing came into play and now, to get two PWC's and a trailer would cost $28k-$35k. Their are similiar examples for rec/ute 4wd ATV's and for snowmobiles. The OEM's have tried to reintroduce a broad line or entry level models but if nobody buys them, they stop offering them. But if the OEMs stop offering lower priced units (because nobody buys them) what happens is that the only lower priced units that are available in the market are 'used' high horsepower units. And these will scare off a lot of people thus hurting the growth of the sport. But I do give credit to Polaris for coming out with the lower priced RZR 570 and Ranger 500 and also to Sea Doo for coming out with the new Spark PWC for $4999. We as riders need to encourage new riders to get into the sport first with whatever they can or want to afford.

3rd: Growing the recreation side of the sport. Personally I think that it is already growing at an amazing rate. If you take a 10 year period and looked at the number of UTV's recreating at Coos Bay, Moon Rocks, Sand Mountain, Lucerne Valley, Pismo, Moab, Dumont, Glamis, Ocotillo, etc you would be amazed at the growth. This sport and industry are in it's infancy and will continue to grow. We do need to keep our public lands open by being active and I think for the most part we have done a decent job over the last several years despite an administration that is not friendly to our cause. For example we have opened up more land at Glamis and saved the majority of Johnson Valley from military take over. But there are continuous threats. We also need to encourage the OEMs to not only offer top of the line high zoot models, but also to continue to offer smaller and more affordable UTV's. I love racing as much (or more) than the next guy but this is a pretty small part of the market. Where the growth will happen is with trail, desert and dune riders. But the biggest question I get, is 'where do I ride?' I think there should be section on UTVUG with rides spots, GPS exchange, UTV-only Geo cache, group rides, etc. Their are a lot of places to ride, but people need to know about them. I think Joey's idea of informal rides and ride leader is a great and it would work all over the country. Locally, there are a lot of fun 1 day, 2 day and 3 day rides. Slash X, Landers, Randsburg, Cal City, Barstow to Vegas, etc. People could lead these rides, or they could down load the GPS route from UTVUG and do it themselves. The website Advriders.com does a good job with this. There is also a free app offered for Android and I-phone called ORV trails offered by Polaris.
My 2 pesos. Sorry for the long post, but I am bullish on the future of the sport! :)
 
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NIKAL

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2012
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I totally agree.
The big manufactures have done this with ROHVA.
Jeff was ROHVA involved or do anything to fight and keep Johnson Valley open for OHV's? Which Org's were directly involved and worked together to keep JV open?

For those who dont know Johnson Valley was going to be the largest Land Grab of OHV land ever. I personally still think we got majorly screwed on that deal. Yes the Hammers were saved, but all the other land used for Desert racing was taken.

1st: to point at the 'manufacturers' and imply that they are not doing enough on the political and land use fronts is comical. I know first hand of the millions that are spent doing these exact things. From supporting ROHVA, ORBA, Blue Ribbon Coalition, the ASA, to working with state and local governments to keep land open. Keep in mind that 'everybody' seems to have their hand out and the OEM's have to choose their battles very carefully where they will have the most impact. Yamaha has their 'trails' program and Polaris has their 'grant and aide' program to support opening and maintaining trails and riding areas. And don't forget that there are legal issues with an OEM supporting a PAC. But the employees of a certain large UTV manufacturer are actually writing personal checks our of their own pockets to support PACS in Washington that in turn support our cause(s). This isn't reimbursed by their employer and if it is an individual contribution it is completely legal. That is going pretty far to support the sport. So I honestly believe that the OEM's are supporting the sport on many levels, but they can't do it all. Where I am disappointed is that the dealers and the aftermarket companies don't do more collectively. Don't get me wrong, some are very active local issues, clubs and land use, but the majority do nothing. Finally, we riders need to be careful who we are pointing fingers at. You have to ask yourselves, how many letters have you written in the last year to your congressman? How many checks have you written in the last year supporting the ASA, Blue Ribbon, etc? How many trash bags of litter have you hauled out of Glamis, Dumont, etc that some goon left? If you have done all of these things then I commend you. If not, just remember, when you point your finger there are three fingers pointing back at you!
Bajaxp I will take your word for it as you were "Much" closer to the manufactures then I am. And I'm glad to hear about the involvement from this manufacture.

It would be nice if there was a Group in DC like what Jeff is talking about that was known to all and that all the Manufactures supported, and then we could also pressure our local retailers and fellow off-roads to help support.

Because right now we have ORBA, ASA, CORVA, Abate, SD off-road coalition, Clean Desert.org ect.. We need 1 primary Group that all others funnel into. We need one large voice with one large financial backer. Because the way I see it right now we have multiple groups who each have a voice, but it is small, very small. And each of those voices has their own personal agenda. Most dont ever get heard in their own State Capital, let alone in DC. All those little voices are shut out by one Liberal or Environmental voice.

And it is said the Manufactures have used ROHVA as their go to Org. Yet all I have seen from ROHVA is one law passed in California and it was only to protect the manufactures. I cant find one piece of legislation or one article where it has said that ROHVA has spoke or done something to help stop land grabs, open more public land for OHV use. Nothing! On their site all they mention under their "NEWS" page is their own press releases reminding you about Safety & their own E-Course you can take about safety.

What has ROHVA done to help the land fight? Did they do anything for Johnson Valley? ROHVA has done good for the Manufactures, but I have not seen what they have done for the end user and the future of the sport.
 

AReed

Member
Oct 2, 2012
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1) Cost of units is getting to that point where people are hesitant to make that leap, and possibly driving them to the sand car or jeep realm.

I agree with this 100%

I think this is going to hit home for a lot more people than we think. If it continues the price of the top vehicles being the XPs, Mavs and Cats are going to cost so much that it's going to be like having another full blown car payment. I love that the sport is growing and everything is getting faster with more suspension but at some point there needs to be a cap on the prices.
 

JoeyD23

#utvunderground
Jan 9, 2009
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Bigger and better comes with more cost. While I don't want to see these things get too much more costly, I certainly don't want OEMs to stop the progression.

Again, if cost is a concern then buy what's in your price range. Sure, we all want bigger and better but you can't drink Champagne on a Beer budget!
 

Darryl89

Killer Kitty - UTVUnderground Approved
Oct 8, 2009
846
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Farmington, NM
Bigger and better comes with more cost. While I don't want to see these things get too much more costly, I certainly don't want OEMs to stop the progression.

Again, if cost is a concern then buy what's in your price range. Sure, we all want bigger and better but you can't drink Champagne on a Beer budget!
I agree with Joey's statement. Does everyone drive $75G DuraMax's or Dodge Cummins. Does everyone have a Ferrari or Corvette parked in their garage. No! Theybuy (or should buy) within their means.

As a dealer, I have new models of different 4X4 UTVs from just over $9,000 and up. Arctic Cat just released the Trail Wildcat and the 500HDX, both with reasonable MSRPs. Polaris released the 570, which from talking to people that own both the 570 RZR and XP900's, claim the 570 to be just as much, maybe more fun to trailride in.
So there are options. Like Joey said, I don't want to see prices climb much higher than they are now, $21-22G for a 4 seater is insane. But it's also a lot more machine than a RZR 570.
 

Jeff Knoll

Carrera Performance
Oct 20, 2010
206
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0
www.isxsa.com
Jeff was ROHVA involved or do anything to fight and keep Johnson Valley open for OHV's? Which Org's were directly involved and worked together to keep JV open?

For those who dont know Johnson Valley was going to be the largest Land Grab of OHV land ever. I personally still think we got majorly screwed on that deal. Yes the Hammers were saved, but all the other land used for Desert racing was taken.



Bajaxp I will take your word for it as you were "Much" closer to the manufactures then I am. And I'm glad to hear about the involvement from this manufacture.

It would be nice if there was a Group in DC like what Jeff is talking about that was known to all and that all the Manufactures supported, and then we could also pressure our local retailers and fellow off-roads to help support.

Because right now we have ORBA, ASA, CORVA, Abate, SD off-road coalition, Clean Desert.org ect.. We need 1 primary Group that all others funnel into. We need one large voice with one large financial backer. Because the way I see it right now we have multiple groups who each have a voice, but it is small, very small. And each of those voices has their own personal agenda. Most dont ever get heard in their own State Capital, let alone in DC. All those little voices are shut out by one Liberal or Environmental voice.

And it is said the Manufactures have used ROHVA as their go to Org. Yet all I have seen from ROHVA is one law passed in California and it was only to protect the manufactures. I cant find one piece of legislation or one article where it has said that ROHVA has spoke or done something to help stop land grabs, open more public land for OHV use. Nothing! On their site all they mention under their "NEWS" page is their own press releases reminding you about Safety & their own E-Course you can take about safety.

What has ROHVA done to help the land fight? Did they do anything for Johnson Valley? ROHVA has done good for the Manufactures, but I have not seen what they have done for the end user and the future of the sport.

I am not sure if everyone knows this but ROHVA and MIC are related. MIC did participate in the save the Hammers effort through its partnership with ORBA, and used its resources directly in DC to some extent.

Here's the complicated part of manufactures being involved in ohv access issues. I have first hand experience with this since I work for a large publicly traded global company. Most have other subsets of their business. They have to be very careful of perception. Give a bunch of money to something, and risk alienating another section of your business. I can think of one example in which the company donates indirectly, making sure the money is helping, but does not want to make a bunch of noise. In the end I imagine they give to all sides and it kind of just cancels each other.

I don't want to derail this topic with an access discussion, but I believe there is a lot of value in a single unified voice, and spending money in the best method possible. I would like the manufactures to do more, but I now understand why that appear not to be.

Oh yea, don't misunderstand me, I am not in love with ROHVA.
 

LORENZ

Lorenz Industries - UTVUnderground Approved
Feb 11, 2009
219
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I have been wanting to do a trip through Sedona, AZ this Febuary and could sumarize and post some pictures after.

Or some tips from the professional racers and how they keep thier car together during the race and what maintenance goes on between races.
We-40 prep every race, oil change and download the Sony Action Cam video... Race Prep complete

Honest truth, so long as I don't blow a motor, Race prep for my Teryx ZX10 Lucas Oil Short Course Car has been somewhat low key. If I could stop adding to the car and learn to drive it I'd be better off and have more time to budget.

I'm in for Sedona, I really wanted to do Moab the Grand Canyon or the Rubicon with Sammy and Suzy in the T4, but Sedona will work. Let's get the family's together.
 

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ROTAX

CannedHam - La Familia
Feb 21, 2011
4,566
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Bigger and better comes with more cost. While I don't want to see these things get too much more costly, I certainly don't want OEMs to stop the progression.

Again, if cost is a concern then buy what's in your price range. Sure, we all want bigger and better but you can't drink Champagne on a Beer budget!
Or, like me…..kinda like a "airplane glue" kinda budget LOL:D
 

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