Incident on 3N93 Holcomb Creek on Saturday 7-14-12
- Thread starter Doug Guimond
- Start date
How can you understand limiting some trails but not others? The USFS is directed by congress to allow multiple types of recreation. There are trails that are hiking only. There are trails that are for equestrians only. There are trails that are for bicycles only. There are trails that are for snowmobiles only. There are trails that are for motorcycles only. There are trails for ATVs only. There are trails that are for street legal vehicles only. There are some trails that are multi use.
The land managers in the SBNF have some pretty solid reasons for why they designate roads and trails the way they do. It is best to hear their reasons directly from them.
If you want to change 3N93 Holcomb Creek out of a street legal route only into a multi use route then get involved. Make your voices and valid reasons known. Also try to understand the tremendous pressure the SBNF land managers are under to accommodate the many different groups of recreationists.
OK, here we go. First of all, WE (AAT volunteers) do not dictate what trails get what designations. We don't work for the SBNF, we VOLUNTEER! We do what we can to help keep the trails open to everyone, but the Federal Government, there I said it, dictates the trail designations. There are so many reasons why Holcomb Creek 3N93 is such a sensitive issue that I can't and won't go into it here. The main one is that it is a water shed for the desert communities and is regulated. There are more "official" govt agencies watching what happens to that trail than you want to know. VERY SENSITIVE! That's why we spend so much time doing what we do. Call it bragging or whatever tag you need to put on it to make it easier to deal with, but this IS what you and I and every other offroader have to deal with until enough of us stand up and get our voices heard. And to that end I am going to start another thread on this forum and others like it where I'll be posting the quarterly meetings of the Adopt A Trail program. That way you all can come see for yourselves what is at stake here and what we speaking out can do to change things. I don't expect to see much activity from this, but if only a few people step up and speak up, it will be worth all the BS that this one incident has created.
I have a great idea for maintaining trails. let everyone use them and then you won't need a weed wackier or shovels. Just putting in my two cents.
So, I actually tok the time time call Trail Cop (Kurt) personally and discuss this matter.
Gotta tell ya - The guy is down to earth and solid. Despite all the rhetoric I've seen posted in this and other threads, I personally support what they are doing. We have been invited to participate and should accpet that invitation or STFU about the signs on the trail and stay off them.
These guys have no axe to grind about SxS's and would welcome us on the trail anytime. Thay have worked hard to keep and open trails. Worked hard to fight closures. What would be a shame is, to see that hard work go to waste because we didn't follow a rule handed down which, they had no control over. Had I spent a significant amount of my time and invested many hours cutting and keeping trails open only to see them closed, because some hotheads decided it was their right to ride there would certainly give me serious cause for concern as I'm sure it would many of us.
I haven't seen anyone from our group lift a single finger to either help maintain these specific trails or fight to keep these specific trails open. These guys have and are rightfully so, concerned about keeping them open.
We have been invited by them, not discouraged, to get involved if we want to use the trails.
I've asked TC to continue posting and share notices of meetings about this area. If you guys want to ride here, you should get involved and attend those meetings, share your voice and assist with the maintenance of the area. Otherwise, ride where it's legal and respect their efforts. We're on the same team and their doing good work.
I know you might have a street legal SxS. Cool, Go ride then but don't take non SL SxS's with you or encourage them to break the law no matter how much you disagree with it. They are the ones that will have to pay or fight the ticket not you. Others might not have the experience or financial resources to spend the time and money to fight a ticket. What resources they do have might be better spent fighting proactively as in going to the meeetings and getting the areas open to SxS's by educating the rule-makers.
Gotta tell ya - The guy is down to earth and solid. Despite all the rhetoric I've seen posted in this and other threads, I personally support what they are doing. We have been invited to participate and should accpet that invitation or STFU about the signs on the trail and stay off them.
These guys have no axe to grind about SxS's and would welcome us on the trail anytime. Thay have worked hard to keep and open trails. Worked hard to fight closures. What would be a shame is, to see that hard work go to waste because we didn't follow a rule handed down which, they had no control over. Had I spent a significant amount of my time and invested many hours cutting and keeping trails open only to see them closed, because some hotheads decided it was their right to ride there would certainly give me serious cause for concern as I'm sure it would many of us.
I haven't seen anyone from our group lift a single finger to either help maintain these specific trails or fight to keep these specific trails open. These guys have and are rightfully so, concerned about keeping them open.
We have been invited by them, not discouraged, to get involved if we want to use the trails.
I've asked TC to continue posting and share notices of meetings about this area. If you guys want to ride here, you should get involved and attend those meetings, share your voice and assist with the maintenance of the area. Otherwise, ride where it's legal and respect their efforts. We're on the same team and their doing good work.
I know you might have a street legal SxS. Cool, Go ride then but don't take non SL SxS's with you or encourage them to break the law no matter how much you disagree with it. They are the ones that will have to pay or fight the ticket not you. Others might not have the experience or financial resources to spend the time and money to fight a ticket. What resources they do have might be better spent fighting proactively as in going to the meeetings and getting the areas open to SxS's by educating the rule-makers.
Ok , I will be at the meeting who else ???So, I actually tok the time time call Trail Cop (Kurt) personally and discuss this matter.
Gotta tell ya - The guy is down to earth and solid. Despite all the rhetoric I've seen posted in this and other threads, I personally support what they are doing. We have been invited to participate and should accpet that invitation or STFU about the signs on the trail and stay off them.
These guys have no axe to grind about SxS's and would welcome us on the trail anytime. Thay have worked hard to keep and open trails. Worked hard to fight closures. What would be a shame is, to see that hard work go to waste because we didn't follow a rule handed down which, they had no control over. Had I spent a significant amount of my time and invested many hours cutting and keeping trails open only to see them closed, because some hotheads decided it was their right to ride there would certainly give me serious cause for concern as I'm sure it would many of us.
I haven't seen anyone from our group lift a single finger to either help maintain these specific trails or fight to keep these specific trails open. These guys have and are rightfully so, concerned about keeping them open.
We have been invited by them, not discouraged, to get involved if we want to use the trails.
I've asked TC to continue posting and share notices of meetings about this area. If you guys want to ride here, you should get involved and attend those meetings, share your voice and assist with the maintenance of the area. Otherwise, ride where it's legal and respect their efforts. We're on the same team and their doing good work.
I know you might have a street legal SxS. Cool, Go ride then but don't take non SL SxS's with you or encourage them to break the law no matter how much you disagree with it. They are the ones that will have to pay or fight the ticket not you. Others might not have the experience or financial resources to spend the time and money to fight a ticket. What resources they do have might be better spent fighting proactively as in going to the meeetings and getting the areas open to SxS's by educating the rule-makers.
Gregory Hoffman
SBNF OHV Manager
U.S.Dept. of Agriculture
Forest Service
602 S. Tippecanoe
San Bernardino, CA 92408
Voice: (909) 382-2811
Cell: (909)615-0475
email: [email protected]
I've spoken with Greg on the trail and on the phone. I tried last year to get this group to start talking with him and he encouraged us to get organized. He said then they had no UTV group on the committee for Adopt a Trail.
Everyone bowed out when I brought it up, and I am not much of a force at one. I guess we should've gotten involved.
I'm in.
Dan ...
SBNF OHV Manager
U.S.Dept. of Agriculture
Forest Service
602 S. Tippecanoe
San Bernardino, CA 92408
Voice: (909) 382-2811
Cell: (909)615-0475
email: [email protected]
I've spoken with Greg on the trail and on the phone. I tried last year to get this group to start talking with him and he encouraged us to get organized. He said then they had no UTV group on the committee for Adopt a Trail.
Everyone bowed out when I brought it up, and I am not much of a force at one. I guess we should've gotten involved.
I'm in.
Dan ...
Ya Dan I remember you talking about it sorry in one ear and out the other , let's see what we can make of this now .Gregory Hoffman
SBNF OHV Manager
U.S.Dept. of Agriculture
Forest Service
602 S. Tippecanoe
San Bernardino, CA 92408
Voice: (909) 382-2811
Cell: (909)615-0475
email: [email protected]
I've spoken with Greg on the trail and on the phone. I tried last year to get this group to start talking with him and he encouraged us to get organized. He said then they had no UTV group on the committee for Adopt a Trail.
Everyone bowed out when I brought it up, and I am not much of a force at one. I guess we should've gotten involved.
I'm in.
Dan ...
Hey PB,
I know you like the "yellow" font. FYI - it's almost impossible to read against the white background in Tapatalk which a lot of us use. "Please" consider a change.
While you don't "force" anyone to follow you, whether you like it or not, a lot of folks do follow you and look to you as an experienced leader on rides. It's your responsibilty to make sure they have a great experience and continue coming on rides with the group when leading or representing our group.
I applaud the work you've done in the past and encourage you to continue the effort going forward. This is not a matter of JV or any other area but about a specific area and another group of our offroad brothers that have actually made a difference with their hard work.
I know they're Jeepers that don't know about SxS's. Can't blame them for that. Maybe someday they'll see the light
What we need to do is get involved "as you always say" and support their effort.
Even if the signs are wrong, let's get them right so we can all enjoy the area.
Yes, but then I can only read your stuff and no one else. hahaha
If you don't want to change, it's cool.
Just thought I'd let you know.
From what I've read, Reed doesn't. From the look of the pictures and the comments I've read, the community here are responsible operators! My hat's off to them!Well......
It's pretty clear from the replies that there is an anarchist on this site who is going to do what he wants, when he wants, and where he wants. It's also pretty clear that this is the same attitude that he brought with him out on the trail.
Hopefully he doesn't speak for everyone on this site
Let me share a story...
I sat in an OHV meeting with the SBNF where they were looking and actively asking for ways to accommodate the UTV community. The UTV community is a fast growing segment of off road vehicles. The US Forest hasn't caught up to their needs yet. With the exception of a single UTV that meets the current 50" rule, the other UTV's were left with no place to go, being that they are NOT street legal in California (despite what Reed says). The SBNF is leading the rest of the country in accommodating the UTV's and still actively making changes where ever they can to get more trails open to them!
I also know for a FACT that the SBNF would LOVE to have a group of UTV enthusiasts adopt a UTV trail and maintain it...just like the Hemet Jeep Club does (4S21).
What's happened here so far is that some feelings got hurt when they were informed they were on street legal only trail. I suspect that the majority were not aware that 3N93 is not open for UTV's. Its clear at least one person was...and doesn't care. As pointed out earlier, there is only ONE UTV that can legally go on 50" trails! This means that the rest of the UTV's are no more legal on that 50" trail than a Jeep is! And believe me, if a Jeep got caught on a 50" trail, they too would be told so.
Hopefully people in this group will accept the invitation to attend the Adopt-A-Trail meeting this Wednesday, talk to the ranger, and work WITH the Forest to accommodate UTV's. So far EVERYONE here is FOR off road recreation no matter what your mode of transportation is!
BTW Reed, if your UTV is truly street legal, you should have front and rear plates. None are apparent in any of your pictures. Maybe you can post a picture of your plate to prove everyone wrong.
Dino - KX6D
Well said above Jim. There's no way I can make said meeting on Wednesday because of the distance and time. If it's decided that La Familia or The Underground is to adopt a trail count me and the family in as volunteers.
Very well said. It's quite obvious you get it. If you guys need any support let us know. The only way we will win is to stand together.So, I actually tok the time time call Trail Cop (Kurt) personally and discuss this matter.
Gotta tell ya - The guy is down to earth and solid. Despite all the rhetoric I've seen posted in this and other threads, I personally support what they are doing. We have been invited to participate and should accpet that invitation or STFU about the signs on the trail and stay off them.
These guys have no axe to grind about SxS's and would welcome us on the trail anytime. Thay have worked hard to keep and open trails. Worked hard to fight closures. What would be a shame is, to see that hard work go to waste because we didn't follow a rule handed down which, they had no control over. Had I spent a significant amount of my time and invested many hours cutting and keeping trails open only to see them closed, because some hotheads decided it was their right to ride there would certainly give me serious cause for concern as I'm sure it would many of us.
I haven't seen anyone from our group lift a single finger to either help maintain these specific trails or fight to keep these specific trails open. These guys have and are rightfully so, concerned about keeping them open.
We have been invited by them, not discouraged, to get involved if we want to use the trails.
I've asked TC to continue posting and share notices of meetings about this area. If you guys want to ride here, you should get involved and attend those meetings, share your voice and assist with the maintenance of the area. Otherwise, ride where it's legal and respect their efforts. We're on the same team and their doing good work.
I know you might have a street legal SxS. Cool, Go ride then but don't take non SL SxS's with you or encourage them to break the law no matter how much you disagree with it. They are the ones that will have to pay or fight the ticket not you. Others might not have the experience or financial resources to spend the time and money to fight a ticket. What resources they do have might be better spent fighting proactively as in going to the meeetings and getting the areas open to SxS's by educating the rule-makers.
This is how to change the background on tapatalk go to more in top right corner than settings then to display style and set to dark this way it is easier to see yellow lettering
I cant make the meeting, but I am ready to join in and Adopt a Trail. Count me in!! I'll drive, fly, do whatever it takes to improve the experience and access to ALL on our PUBLIC trails, without the attitude of "Own a Trail"!! My shovel and heart are ready!!!